Of tightly organic responsiveness

Amid all the excitement over PES2018’s Patch of Destiny, I concluded my Season 3 in Master League, and won promotion to the Premier League.

Second place, as is traditional for me. I rarely go up by winning the D2 title.

Look at Middlesbrough’s final points tally. And see how many matches I – and the teams below me – lost and drew.

I had a good run-in, with some peculiar dips in form. Veldwijk scored just 2 goals in his last 15 matches, but still finished as Division top scorer thanks to his early-season exploits.

And he made it into the Team of the Season:

Along with his strike partner, Stepinski, and Emre Can in midfield.

With all the distraction of the Patch of Destiny over the last few weeks, I neglected to mention that those two players – Stepinski and Can (particularly Can) – have emerged from the shadows of nuPES-style poor individuality, and staked separate claims to be great and memorable PES players.

Can is a dominant, powerful midfielder who can play defensively or attacking-ly, fills in at CB when we’re desperate, and chips in with a respectable amount of goals. ‘Emre Can, Wonderman’ is my mental mantra when he gets the ball. If I was doing my Individuality-ratings thing again today, he’d get an 8, easy.

Stepinski would get a 7, and has become very important for me. I don’t think Veldwijk is going to cut it in the Premier League, and my finances are such that I can’t afford another striker. I’ve got £30m-odd (THIRTY MILLION-ODD) in the transfer kitty, but my Salary Budget is -£2m (MINUS TWO MILLION). It’s a somewhat pleasing callback to the days when ML finances would routinely handicap the human player for most of the first seasons.

Emre Can (Wonderman) is easily the cuplrit on the wages front. He’s on £3m-plus (THREE MILLION-PLUS) per year. I had a great transfer offer for him, but Master League is all about hanging onto your best players and getting by somehow, and that is what I’m doing.

Up to the Premier League, then, and my first opponents were Everton.

My preferred style of play is pass-and-move. I rarely try long balls into the box. Well, PES2018’s AI does such a good job of catenaccio-ing me out of things, that I have been trying the occasional long ball. Like this:

I uploaded that goal from within the match at a time when I confidently expected it to be, as titled, the winning goal. Just after I resumed play, I conceded the equaliser, and then Everton got the winner, and I lost 3-2.

I’m on Superstar now, by the way. It seems harder than Top Player, as it darn well ought to.

The Patch of Destiny landed yesterday, and really, it’s as if it didn’t. Yesterday I tracked my fouls-count across 13 matches (see the comments thread on the previous post for details). The final average was about 0.5 fouls per match. There has been no change on that front, and I see no changes anywhere else either. I’ll take people’s word for it that they perceive the general gameplay to be tighter here or looser there or more responsive in general or whatever.

I still have no real idea what is meant by any of those buzzwords. OrganicTightness Responsiveness. These words and many others have been knocking around for so long in the PES lexicon that we have stopped noticing they’re not really attached to any consistent meaning that players can all agree on.

I think that by ‘responsiveness’ we mean ‘as close as possible a correspondence between controller input and on-screen output’ – but isn’t that a bad thing from the point of view of a kinetic video game with moving parts (players) who are all meant to have different attributes that must therefore sometimes mean they have to be un-responsive, for the greater good of the simulation?

Is it not the case that as responsiveness levels rise, player individuality levels must fall?

Doesn’t this alleged responsiveness contribute massively to the relentless Keystone Kops feel of much PES gameplay since PES2014? Might responsiveness (or tightness, or organicness, or whatever) actually be the enemy of true PES values?

That is just one aspect of confusing terminology surrounding PES that puzzles and disturbs me in equal measure. It’s disturbing because I’m never sure that we’re talking about what we think we’re talking about.

So I don’t see, or feel, or intuit that the Patch of Destiny has done anything of note to the gameplay in any way whatsoever. I would never say that I have the most discriminating palate when it comes to footy gaming. I could believe that there have been some changes – the game has felt a touch faster – but such minor alterations that they don’t amount to a hell of a lot.

All along I have said that PES2018 could well be the final new PES game I will ever play. As I have documented quite exhaustively over the past year or two, the series has been taken in a direction that does not satisfy me. I’m no longer in the target market for this product.

As things stand, there will be no PES2019 in my life or on this blog. This time next year, I’d much rather be playing PES2011 than yet another slightly tweaked and prettified instalment of the egregious PES2016, which is what this current ‘family’ of PES games really is.

But I will not be hasty. PES has earned its place in my life.

Yesterday I played 13 matches, and that would seem to be enough to detect something – or nothing – but I will give it the rest of my Master League career to finally decide. That will be at least 2 more seasons’ worth of footy gaming.

Updated: 17th November 2017 — 11:22


  1. Yes, it seems very hard to do it without setting alarms off, I got most of the way then found three blokes guarding the target. The skulls I just ran away from on the horse. I find that far too easy to do – hell breaks loose, mount horse and run round the mountain, come back later as if nothing ever happened. I’ve never died either, I took 75 hits in that mission, just how many does it take to kill you? If you can be killed?

    I’m being harsh of course, compared with far cry et al this is Turing test stuff but it’s konami so they don’t get away without abuse.

  2. Uncle Turf – ah, you’re very near the start still, I thought you were a lot further along. You’ll get the tutorials – and the silence tranq sniper rifle is a long way away yet, just make do without for now. When I played I started every mission stealthing it, but if it went tits-up I just Rambo’d the rest of it. Died multiple times.

    Paul – sounds like you’ve cracked Top Player. I started on Superstar in the Premier too, but found it so punishingly hard that I’ve dropped back down to TP for now.

    orlando.jabulani – that’s exactly it, as decent as PES since PES2014 or so has been, it’s just not PES as we used to know it. Even PES2008 and PES2009 – the weakest PS3 versions – were more PES games than PES2016/17/18 ever could be. That huge gap between defence and attack in PES2018 is self-evidently calculated to boost counter-attacking play and create multiple ‘exciting’ moments per match. My one match of PES2011 yesterday featured about 2 exciting moments and would bore the average teen online player to tears today. Enough is enough.

  3. Just watched the Shankly documentary on BBC iPlayer. Really enjoyable, but also shows the stark contrast to what football has become today. It’s also made me want to do an ML where I take a Championship team to the very top with Just British players. Maybe five from England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland & Northern Ireland.

    (Footnote: I have played ML on every PES there’s been. Just in case anyone thinks I’m a nuPES fan girl. It’s more a case of there’s very few things that give me joy so I don’t fancy binning the series – and it’s still infinitely better than FIFA, which I also play.)

  4. Jay – I don’t doubt your own storied history with the series and I’m not judging. I have just been on PES2018 and had a satisfying session. I didn’t exactly have to drag myself off the console, though, and that’s the problem. With me it’s very much a case of the series no longer consistently delivering what I most want. I’ve really wrung every drop of moisture out of post-PS3 PES that I’m ever going to. And I’m not binning the series! I think I will be playing PES forever – it’s just that without a profound shift in emphasis away from the fun-flowing-frolics, it won’t be any new edition of the series. I’ve been trying to think of another example of something excellent that became… less excellent, bordering on ‘just okay’, and can’t really think of one. Anyone? A TV show or movie series?

  5. NG – Wagon Wheels

  6. They just became smaller.

    Wacky races – my sympathy for anyone who has had to sit through the new version, dick dastardly sounds like he works in customer services.

  7. For me my list would be:

    Macdonalds Milkshakes – the old one’s used to be full of Ice Cream and took an age to finish.

    Only Fools and Horses – the last couple of series and Christmas episodes were very mediocre in comparison with the golden age of the show, when the Grandad was alive. The show became more popular later on but that doesn’t mean it was better and some of the jokes ended up being repeated.

    Curly Wurly’s – nothing like the size they used to be.

    Rocky and Jaws films – loved both of the first two films for both. After that enough said.

    Match of The Day – the old shows had a unique charm about them.

  8. Going to the football, all seater stadiums made it worse.

    I’m finding SS noticeably more difficult post patch, anyone else? It feels like SS has been merged with Legendary.

  9. For examples I think it’s got to be something that was outstanding in a way that overshadowed everything else in life – but then just became good/very good. In computer gaming I can think of Ultimate Play The Game in the Spectrum era. The release of a new Ultimate game was a major event in life for a good few years. Until their standards slipped and they started trying to match the styles (and sales) of the mass-appeal games that everyone else was making.

    In TV, Only Fools And Horses is a decent example. For about 5 years the Christmas Special was a secure part of our national life in that odd period pre-Internet and pre-digital TV. But one year, one of the specials was as dodgy as one of Del Boy’s DVD players. Nobody wanted to say it or believe it. The show had been so excellent for so long, and become such a part of our lives, that it was verboten to say anything against it. The relevant-to-PES angle here is that the show was still good and more than worth watching, but it wasn’t what it was. It had become more of a comedy-drama now. There were long stretches where it was more like a stage play, with these Beckettian characters locked into a spiral of mutual love and desperation. Cassandra and Raquel were shit too – neither were allowed to do anything more than roll their eyes at the antics of Del Boy and Rodney. And Uncle Albert – the Scrappy Doo of Only Fools – was a one-note Old Man of The Sea. I never missed an episode and still remember it fondly, but it was never the same after Rodney’s wedding IMO, and there were powerful social and cultural forces at work to suppress any dissent. ‘Only Fools isn’t that funny anymore’ was something you could occasionally say, but people would look at you shocked, as if you were being disloyal…

    And, yep, PES is more or less in the same situation now.

  10. Only Fools and horses is a good shout – should have ended with the watch and the millionaires. I assume it was a payday they couldn’t say no to. Fawlty Towers had it right.

    Hardly world turning but personally;

    Auf Wiedersehen Pet. It should have ended after series two. To continue it and visit ever more exotic locations with increasingly ridiculous plots killed it for me. I accept it possibly never started for some of you though, it could be a little north-east obsessed.

    Wispas – the formula that they returned with after the massively popular launch and disappearance of the product was definitely different. You could dissolve an old wispa from the inside out in a hot drink, post revival they simply melt from the outside in.

    These are ‘returns’ though rather than a year on year worsening. Sport is littered with ill advised comebacks but in terms of sad decline the fat Patrick Kluivert we got was a crushing blow. I guess you’re after jump the shark moments?

  11. Uncle Turf – I’m really after proper PES comparisons (rather than chocolate bars that aren’t quite as nice anymore, and the like). Any actual thing that transformed from unquestionable, triple-platinum-plated excellence, into a very questionable, adulterated, watered-down state of mere ‘goodness’. So not something that became rubbish, but something that was brilliant and became simply ‘good’. As in the trajectory from, say, PES5 (fill in your own Ultimate PES), to PES2016 and the likes. Remember what PES used to be – an astounding simulation of the game, that was also fun, which was to FIFA what ambrosia is to a glass of warm tapwater. Nowadays, both PES and FIFA are just nice fizzy drinks. My single match of PES2011 on Saturday shocked me. Only 1 foul in the whole match, but with the way PES gameplay used to be, it didn’t matter. There was none of that relentless back-and-forth attack/counterattack rhythm going on.

  12. X Files. Used to be superb, but the ‘reboot’ and return series last year was shockingly awful, lack of genuinely good ideas, just rested on its previous reputation, rehashed the same formula which had now become stagnant, and attempted a few gimmicks, all very relateable to PES.

    Surprised you didn’t adorn a new set of kits for your Maiden Premiership campaign NG.

  13. Paul – not a great analogy again as nuPES is, I think, still a very good game. It’s just not the Nectar of the Gods game that the series used to produce without breaking a sweat. We could delve into whether it’s a case of oneself having changed just as much (or more), but I think that’s a cop-out. I think it’s objectively true that PES has made compromises with prevailing market forces (understandably so) that have moved it closer to FIFA, resulting in the kind of fast, fun, flowing, ‘accessible’ gameplay we have today. There’s just enough of the old PES DNA still present to make it respectable and worth getting excited over for the past few years, but last week’s non-patch was really a public statement of intent. This isn’t Kansas anymore.

  14. NG – I think there will never be an accurate analogy, as whether PES or anything is ‘as good as it once was’ is a very subjective matter.
    Obviously we all look back to the likes of PES5,6 even 2011/12 with snippets of 2010 as the best the series has offered, and would say those days were much better, but others would argue that PES 18 is the best PES and better than the old 8 way directional, rigid PES games such as those aforementioned.

    Maybe its our expectations and the way they have developed over the years that determines if a game is as good or not, minimal fouls has been around years, back to PES 11, it was less noticeable then, why? Solely because of better game play? or increased individuality? is that actually a thing or even measurable?

    We just expect more from games these days, and as a result look for and notice things that displease us more.

  15. Paul – I’ve had individual matches of nuPES – even on the ‘might as well be a coin-operated cabinet in a dingy arcade’ PES2016 – that were as good as anything back in the Golden Age. The thing with nuPES is that it doesn’t consistently offer that high quality. There’s too much button-mashy trance-play. The proportionality of PESness/unPESness is about 10%/90%. The old games were 90%/10%. I really would peg it as that extreme an inversion.

    Why low-fouls didn’t matter much in Silver Age PES (PES2009-PES2014) is a very good question and one that I think I will have a lot of opportunity to explore in the coming years, when I will probably focus almost entirely on those games. In a nutshell, individuality+tightness=PES. (Tightness as you would define it, meaning proper footballing values informing the positioning of players. Apart from PES2011’s unfortunate glitch that sees the SBs playing as central AMFs much of the time, the teams hold their shape, resulting in little or non of that churning-about, tumble-dryer gameplay that so disfigures PES in the current age.)

  16. With all that said, I reserve the right to change my mind and ‘discover’ PES2018 as a covert classic. Any readers who recall my PES2012 high drama will already know this is entirely possible. PES2012 went from ‘this is the worst PES ever!’ and a flouncing-off to FIFA, to become one of the best PESes ever. As this video documents:

    That music is still my phone ringtone. People get very confused when they hear it, as it’s known that I don’t like music. My office contains several young, attractive women, and I take an almost malicious pleasure in explaining to them exactly where the music comes from. I enjoy the looks on their faces of ‘disgusted pity’. Sometimes I’ll chuck in a Star Trek reference to really crank it up.

  17. You are seriously underestimating the quality of those early wispas.

  18. I agree with Turf, Wispas of old used to be legendary, the new modern era of chocolate bars, ie twice the price, half the size and half the substance is the confectionary world’s equivalent of modern PES.

    NG – are you saying that your team in NuPES doesn’t keep its shape? and as a result leads to un-football like moments which erodes the quality of game play? Or have I read that (twice) incorrectly.

    As a fantasy mashup exercise, what 3 games would you use as a hybrid to make the ultimate PES game to date?

    I’ll go first ….

    Core Game play: PES 11
    ML Mode: PES 2010
    Overall Package: Pes 12

    Core Game play (PES 11): The first ‘reboot’ year for the series where the rigid fixed passing was gone,and a newer freedom was introduced, players had weight, inertia and individuality in bucket loads.

    ML Mode (PES 10): A wealth of options, staff hiring, which all affected your management of the squad, finance management, earning GP for wins/draws, trying to balance the books, in-depth player training and stats, meaningful form, injuries,suspensions…

    Overall Package (PES 12): A decent ML, even if it was the beginning of the sharp decline in ML quality, great game play, refinements of PES11’s core, and Stadium editor !!!

    Great memories conjured up by that video, I remember it fondly from the actual time, Falcao, the favoured Puma Evo Ball, the shaky cam footage, the central shooting debate, actually looking forward to playing the ‘big’ teams as they felt different….
    Even the ‘even got a penalty’ comment suggest we were devoid of foul decisions back in those days.

  19. Core game play: PES 2012
    ML mode: FIFA 12
    Overall package: FIFA 15

    would be pretty epic

  20. I’m sorry but Wispas and the like really do not scale up to PES levels sufficiently enough to be a good analogy. Nobody has Wispa Release Days, or Wispa release weeks, or books time off work for same. Nobody reads Wispa forums or heaps abuse on the heads of Wispa PR staff, whose names and basic biographies are known to all Wispa-lovers. Nobody eats Wispa all year long and looks forward to the next. There is simply no comparison to be had.

    Paul – you don’t have to be Jermaine Jenas standing in front of a giant iPad to see the massive gap between the back 4 and front 6 (!), as ably detailed by orlando.jabulani last night. I play with ATT/DEF levels a lot and see that behaviour even on 1-bar. It’s clear what it’s designed to facilitate: the kind of basketball back-and-forth that I would submit as Exhibit #1 in the case against nuPES for treason against the name.

    Core game play: PES5. Never been bettered. Never.
    ML mode: PES5. Yes, PES2010 and PES2011 were better MLs, but PES5’s ML was in the best football game ever made, so was therefore da best too.
    Overall package: PES5

  21. NG – found a Gaming PC, Windows 10 64bit, 16GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB HDD, AMD Radeon 2GB Dedicated gfx card, Pentium 3.9Ghz Quad Core i7 processor (turbo boosted to 4.2GHZ), with WIFI adapter, just base unit, no keyboard, mouse, monitor etc, £578.

    That should run PES 18 in Ultra mode.

  22. Paul – I like everything there except the HDD (can always be swapped out). I have spare keyboards and mouses and monitors aplenty. Where is this marvel?

  23. I think I will compare action movies. Those movies from the 80s and early 90s with blood, bad language, jokes… and makeup. I really loved the makeup and special effects, not the crappy CGI we have today. I talk about the action, not the plot. Everyone knows the plot is crap, but the action…I just wish the “Taken” movies with Liam Neeson were made 15-20 years before. Those would have been awesome. Last action movie I enjoyed was “The Expendables part 1”.

    By the way, in a couple of days I will have a new addition to my PES family. Nobody has said anything about this one yet, so I will try to upload a couple pictures and some comments about it after some play time.

  24. JS Hutt – I’m going to go out on a limb and say that whatever this PES game is, I’ve said something about it here over the past 10 years. The only PES game I’ve never really played was PES1 on the PS2.

    Best action movie ever made is one of the most misunderstood and unfairly disparaged: Last Action Hero. The action movie/real world crossover was far, far more than just an amusing gimmick. The ‘romantic comedy’ Groundhog Day is similarly misunderstood – this one contains nothing less than the key to life itself.

    The analogy still doesn’t hold with PES, unfortunately. No film genre can stand toe-to-toe with PES in history. By now it should be clear that the only thing comparable to PES in our lives would be our nearest and dearest. Spouses and children. This is why there are so many girlfriend metaphors in PES-speak. Chocolate bars, sitcoms and movies just don’t cut it.

  25. I’ve been thinking about the future of PES after reading an article from last year about FIFA 17 selling 40 times more than PES2017 in the first week (!), and also another one that stated FIFA had sold 15 million copies through more or less the first 4 months, whereas PES only sold…1 million. I don’t see any future for the franchise if things go on the way they have been lately. We can spend endless hours discussing the gameplay and if it’s even a bit realistic at all – and it is not – but the fact is even if they somehow produced a fantastic simulation of football for PES2019, this game would still be plain poor. Every game mode has been neglected in favor of poor-man’s-Ultimate-Team that is myClub, which will NEVER be more popular than Ultimate Team as long as EA chooses to keep feeding its beast.
    Moreover, it has been FIFA leading the way for a decade. EA does something, Konami follows, think Be a Pro – Become a Legend, Ultimate Team – myClub, gameplay suited for 15-year-olds and overreactive youtubers…

    Whenever Konami finally decides to stop pretending their product is alive and well, they’ve got to stop following and start leading the way. For me the solution already exists in the game: it’s Become a Legend mode. There’s so much potential unexploited in this mode, it’s crazy. Great gameplay + solid, in-depth single-player career is the formula that NBA2K used back in 2009 and it worked so well that 2K still reigns today when it comes to basketball gaming. I imagine a BaL where you start your career as a youngster playing for a local under-19 team, working your way up throughout the years by performing well on both matches and practices – you should be able to play a realistic training session to determine whether you’re playing the next match.

  26. Paul – sorry mate, can’t make wispa club this week, I’ll post remarks on the forum instead. Will be back for the kit kat’s should be in foil wrappers weekend though.

    Just out of interest, for how many people is a pes game their actual best ever game? Obviously mine is skyrim so I don’t really get that worked up about release day etc.

  27. Hold on. The best action movie ever must be Predator. There can be no other.

  28. Woah woah woah.

    Sorry gentlemen, the best action movie ever is also the best Christmas movie ever. And if you don’t know what I am talking about…

    On the other hand… let’s get to the chopper!

  29. PES is my “best actual ever game.”

    1. PES (I’d need to put good thought into deciding on a particular one, but it’ll be one of the ones where you could transfer your ML between your PS and PSP).
    2. Championship Manager 2001/02
    3. Football Manager Handheld (PSP era)
    4. LMA Manager 2003
    5. Premier Manager 2008

    I tried to play Pro Evolution Soccer Management. It was abysmal.

  30. Sorry jay, I asked for your “actual best ever game”….

    LMA?! Seriously??

    What’s the definition of an action movie? Is something like Leon too arty? Does it have to be park your brain type stuff, as NG’s defence of last action hero appears to suggest it isn’t (I’ve never seen it). Much as I didn’t want to the one I’ve enjoyed the most in recent years was the Equalizer but I’d be hard pushed to put one in my top twenty (dominated as it is by westerns). I’m pretty clear on my favourite novel though – perfume. The film could even begin to do justice to it.

  31. Uncle Turf – In a list of my best-ever games, a PES game would be top of course – it doesn’t even need to be named – and at least 3 other editions in the top 10. PES2, PES3, and PES2012. Most of the others would make the top 30. Only a few editions would actually not make it at all: PES2008(PS3) and PES2016. P.S. The Pigeon is far better than Perfume.

    Jay – PES isn’t a game though. That’s like saying your favourite film is ‘James Bond’. It’s a series, with variable qualities between releases, a changing cast of creators that comes and goes over time, set against a backdrop of passing time, with changing market conditions and player sensibilities. Have to agree about LMA 2003 though – loved that back in the day. And the PSP PES that transferred between PSP and PS2 was PES2008 – one of the best-ever old-school PES editions, PES7 in all but name. They should have just released that on PS3 instead of what they did release.

  32. Stands to reason with you running a blog about it. I think I’ve gone on record before as saying 2012 was a special gaming time but only because of the feeling generated here. As a game, if on that desert island, nah. There’d be skyrim, final fantasy 7, windwaker, a championship manager of the old pre- fm days, quite a lot before I’d get to any pes I think, I just don’t think about it in the depth you do. But then again my favourite bond s Timothy dalton.

  33. Favourite ever game would have to be Uncharted 1, for all its linear run, and shoot and grapple mechanics, the graphics were unlike anything seen before on a console, and the storytelling was hollywood quality, and the fact it was a launch title with the PS3 was even more impressive.
    Of course PES is a fave too but as NG said that’s a series, rather than a standalone title.

    Fave action film has to be either Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, or Gremlins which is actually labelled up a a horror in most places.

    I had the single best session of PES 18 that I’ve had to date last night.
    And I will say now that the patch has absolutely definitely 100% changed things.

    After my recent run of 9 games unbeaten and elevating up to 2nd, the PES ‘session swing’ kicked in last night, every team were playing out of their skin, closing me down, pressing, it was a welcome change of fortunes, I drew 2, lost 1 and won 3 of the 6 games I played, but a few special things happened.

    I was 3-1 down against a rampant Cardiff side, and snatched a 92nd min equaliser with a lovely piece of play, but over and above that, this all happened ….

    1. A PENALTY !!!!! My first in over 600+ ML Games spanning back to the beginning of 12 seasons of PES 17.
    2. A Cracking semi-long ranger from the COM against me, racketing in off the bar, COM teams rarely shoot from distance so I actually enjoyed conceding this.
    3. ANOTHER Penalty, 2 in 3 matches!!!!!!

    I have seen those tackles against me (for the penalties) hundreds and hundreds of times, they are never ever given, ever. Now, post-patch, they were both given, the first one a definite pen, as the COM defender was late in his tackle and caught my players trailing foot, the second was a bit of a nothing penalty, obstruction at best and would never have been given before the patch.
    The matches in last nights session averaged 2.6 fouls per match over 6 matches.

    Turf – Shame mate, Cecil said he’s bringing that vintage double choc Trio bar he found in an old unused vending machine in Musty Pines residential home in Cleethorpes.
    I’ll tell the lads you said hi.

  34. I think reaction to the patch says everything – conflicting views of its impact all over t’web and indeed on here. As long as you’re in a happy place with it I guess that’s the main thing but with Lego Marvel number 3 in Santa’s bag I’ll likely not be returning to 2015, let alone buying 2018, in a hurry.

    Paul – I’d like it minuted that I don’t believe that Trio warrants a place in the Hall of Fame as essentially it’s a biscuit. If the guys vote it through though, fair enough. It can’t hold a candle to the Cabana I bought from a dingy corner shop in blackburn last year.

  35. Turf, agree, but Trio double choc (blue wrapper) is a thing of delicious rarity.
    You can find the Red toffee ones in stores now as they were brought back a while ago, but not the choc ones.
    Quite partial to a boost too.

    The patch was expected to do big things, it hasn’t, its more of a subtle tweak but my video evidence above proves that they did change things, wasn’t just a placebo effect patch.

  36. Paul – well done, 2 pens in the same session?? I have started to notice a few differences post-patch myself, but there are still too many zero-interruption, fast, frenzied matches for comfort. We shall see though. As I alluded to yesterday, after walking away from PES2012 I returned and it was one of the best-ever.

    Oh, and you and Turf are noticeably not riffing about Wispas, but about chocolate bars in general, thus validating my point that there is no comparison to be made with PES fandom.

  37. NG, I know, unheard of, couldn’t believe my eyes.Almost hit the Magical, mythical Trifecta of PES rarity too, as my player went off for treatment after the tackle for the first penalty, but alas, was back on within seconds and no injury.

    The choccy bar thing wasnt supposed to be a comparison to PES, just being whimsical about ‘proper’ choccy bars of old.

    On a side note, after doing some research I think I have found a way to get PES 5 running on both my PS Vita and iPhone.

  38. Paul – PES5 the PS2 game or the PSP version? If the latter, don’t waste your time – PES5 on PSP was a major letdown. No Master League in that first PSP edition, just Exhibitions and Cups. PES2008 is the PSP version you need. If you’re looking at emulation for the PS2 version… football games are one of the areas that PC emulation of PS2 games has yet to get right, so I’ll be interested to hear how it all works out on a phone.

  39. rat’s cocks!…he’s rumbled us.

  40. NG – Thanks for the heads up, it was the PSP version I was looking at.
    No Master League would have been a let down.

    I just want a good classic footy game to play on my PS Vita at lunchtimes, get some use out of it.

    I will have a look around for PES 2008. May even be easier to just buy a PSP and PES 08 instead of fannying around.

    Also that gaming PC for sub £600 I mentioned, have a look here: https://www.fiercepc.co.uk/ironwing-armour

    Comes in at £595 thats with 120GB SSD and 16GB DDR3

    Turf, all these careless Wispa’s … we was bound to be found out sooner or wafer.

  41. PES2008 for the PSP is a great game but if anyone’s interested in the PSP versions of the series, I highly recommend any from 2011 to 2014 – these are the only ones with more than 1 stadium avaliable only.

  42. Nice one orlando.
    Just ordered the classic PSP console, with PES 5,6,2008,2011 & 2012 for £62 from CEX.

  43. Paul – that’s some serious PES completism right there. I need to step my game up.

  44. The PSP army is growing! One day we’ll rule the world.
    That’s a stupendous price for what you’ve got, honestly. Did you get the Slim or the Fat PSP?

  45. Still doesn’t help the fact that I have a shiny new PS Vita sitting in the drawer gathering dust!

    Slim PSP Console – £50
    PES 5,6 & 2008 were 50p each, PES 11 was 1.50 and PES 12 was 2.00, rest was P&P.

    If Darryl is reading this, they have the XBOX ver of PES 5 as well.

    Anyone got a PS3? Happy to shift on my copy of PES 2010.

  46. I have seen videos of the psp versions and they look very good. Also, I think you can emulate them easily with today’s computers.

    Hopefully the one I ordered will arrive tomorrow. It hasn’t shipped yet and Thursday is Thanksgiving here, so unless it is here tomorrow…

    And by the way NG, I have been checking a little bit in the older posts and I haven’t seen you talking about the one I ordered. I might surprise you.

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