Just 7/10 at the moment

Regen Dani Alves has arrived at RB. Just landed in January, and I have a deal for Regen van Persie in the works. RVP will cost me £20m and I won’t see any benefit from him for probably 3-4 seasons – but I play Master Leagues for the long haul, typically getting into double figures for seasons, so these kind of signings make sense for me.

Table:League form has of course abruptly fallen into the toilet. PES2020’s ways of stopping the player scoring when it wants to are pretty much the same as all others. This year the AI is allowed to commit outrageously violent fouls that are simply ignored. Even PES2018 – even PES2018 – would have whistled the kinds of fouls on show here.

Passing the ball around is still very nice. Shooting is still very nice – even though it’s crystal-clear that you’re not allowed to score from 25+ yards enough to make shooting from that distance worthwhile.

Master League, intriguingly, so far seems to be one of the weakest editions of the mode ever made. Perhaps it’s just me belatedly waking up to things. Perhaps this really is the Master League that broke the camel’s back.

The only things truly new in Master League are the cutscenes – an entirely cosmetic addition.

The difficulty settings for Negotiations and Budget might as well not be in there at all. I am starting to see random occurrences of hardness in contract negotiations with my own players, but not enough to bother me (for now).

You really can get any player you want, finances willing, at any time you want. Your entire squad can be completely replaced after two transfer windows. Is this what God intended when He created Master League? I don’t think it is, you know. How Satan (myClub) must cackle with glee every time a Default is shipped out in the first window.

Come on, PC modders. What’s keeping you?

I met Arsenal in the FA Cup. This was my first encounter with a top team in PES2020 and it went rather well. I won 1-0. (In the middle of a League run where I could barely complete a pass.)

The winning goal was from Castledine, following one of those embarrassing short-range looping goal kicks that the AI does. (It must be near the top of the ‘Patch This Shit Out’ list, surely?)

I’ve included in this brief clip a final chance that Arsenal had where their player headed away from an open goal

 

 

Updated: 11th October 2019 — 12:49

47 Comments

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  1. That’s one of the most annoying facets of this game, when your players are unable to complete a simple 5 yard pass in the opponents half, with regularity, its either an interception, or the past just goes astray or even to a completely unintended player, very frustrating.

    Piss weak FK there, but Castledine’s a great striker of the ball, and that was a great finish for the win.

    Looked like the Arsenal player was trying to head back to a team mate for a tap-in, no situational awareness to know he was on the goal line.

  2. Paul — with FKs from that position I have a vague memory in a past PES of once — just once — sneaking one in at the far post, so I nearly always try them in every PES since. I should just treat those FKs like corners, which would be the smart thing to do, but I have to do that instead.

  3. I just noticed I uploaded the wrong version of the video – Paul very kindly made a custom ‘stinger’ thing for me to use in place of the PS4-branded one, and I used a half-size version of it for this short clip, which I have uploaded now. Cheers Paul!

    There’s a few-seconds-longer version of it that I’ll use for longer vids, compilations etc.

  4. NG – No worries, looking good 😉

    Did you import it into sharefactory and use it from there?

    I also recall a couple of PES’s ago where you was obsessed with playing a corner out to the edge of the box for a first time volley/shot!!
    Tried it in this PES yet ?

  5. Paul – I did this one on the PC but the two versions of the stinger are in Sharefactory now, cheers again.

    I still try the corner routine. The Scholes corner as I think of it. That’s another grumble I currently have with PES2020 – when I do the L1 and stick switch to a lurking player, the AI immediately trots to cover him. No other PES has done this and it’s blatant input reading.

  6. NG – That’s the one, I’ve tried it a few times but like you say, the AI just auto-tracks you immediately, makes it nigh on impossible.

    If anyone else wants any animations, logos, motion graphics designing for adding to their videos, I’m doing them at 5 quid a pop, cheaper than anywhere online.

    Intros / Logos / Stingers / Social Media Boosters etc

    Examples:

  7. Just noticed I’m escorting your new player onto the training ground….anyone else opt for the dapper cue ball guy on the left?

    Over the next few games I have the opportunity to solidify a play off space – top two are well away but there are four points between sixth and seventh. I’ve got matches against those in 8th 9th etc – I’m betting I will not be allowed to win them all.

  8. Turf – that cue ball guy is the same in every single game, no matter who you choose as your manager avatar so we all have him !!

  9. I’ve got the same manager as Paul (always looks like he’s just out of bed after a 2 day session) but Turf’s manager is the slightly hyperactive guy I think of as Director of Football. The cut scene below cheers me up the once a season it happens because the DoF is very excited about a new signing whilst the manager looks like he just wants him to leave and then just stares into the void with those dead eyes with a coffee cup stuck to his palm.

    I reckon there’s some good meme potential once we’ve all bored of the game.

  10. Paul – no, you don’t, if you choose baldie guy as the manager then you get a different guy escorting players (Garth crooks was the one at Middlesbrough for me, I’ve got a different one at Charlton) and a third one does the ‘we need to keep costs down’ type shit.

    Basically they use all the non- real manager options to fill in as appropriate, so somewhere along the line I’ll be seeing you in some backroom role.

    Cook – I’ve never had that scene!

  11. Looks like the manager wanted to sign Douglas Costa Coffee

  12. NG – Going back to the previous post I couldn’t upload the goal as the message popped up that I would have to do the update to access the network features. If I did this the PS4 for would re-start and I would lose the game in progress. Unless I am missing something as I am not up on all this video stuff.

    As for the goal it wasn’t a goalkick. I played a long ball over the top and the keeper rushed out to intercept before my striker could get the ball. He cleared the ball out and richoched off another player and landed at the feet of my midfield player. I then lobbed the ball back into the open net.

  13. Darryl – all your replays are saved to PS4 hard drive and should be there in ‘Capture Gallery’ via the main menu. I’d be interested to see that goal as PES2020 so far isn’t a PES of memorable goals for me. After Jonas mentioned PES2012 yesterday I was looking back at PES2012’s opening weekend and there were some great goals then. Call me shallow but I like a non-standard goal

  14. I’ve scored nothing close to karlsen’s early laces effort.

  15. And I haven’t scored anything like Castledine’s early R2 27-yarder. They’ve all been pretty standard goals. The build-up and the context have been the only things to mark them out — and this is what worries me, because that is the nature of almost all online goals. Online players almost never shoot from outside the area. Way back in the day Seabass made a football game after watching lots of real life football. I worry that his successors have made one after watching lots of online football.

  16. NG – The PES team have a pretty keen eye for many aspects of the real-life game that their EA Sports Canada rivals miss or disregard. The fine work of certain staffers, however, is completely bollocksed-up by other individuals who apply global tuning adjustments to address the concerns of online players to *all* modes. Some of the designers/coders are also too overzealous in addressing things that they regard as exploits. For example: we’ve all on occasion taken advantage of the AI being a little slow-witted in set-piece situations over recent years, but having it run a player over to mark anyone that you point at with the camera is just fucking silly.

    Or perhaps it’s just that the two interns and a work experience kid who get three and a half days to update core ML front-end mechanics every year don’t fully understand the intricacies of the match code. Master League must necessarily feed at least *some* information to the core game engine, beyond team data and lineups, and I think that many awful matches occur because of TS-related debuffs – and, worse, ML so often directing opposing teams to defend in numbers, and attack with no more than two or three forwards.

    I’ve had two pretty lengthy sessions where PES has been *outstanding* in recent days – Wednesday evening and last night – bookending some absolutely ridiculously poor matches in-between. I’ve been experimenting with multiple saves to figure out what it is that is making PES 2020 ML matches feel so fucking awful when it can potentially be so good, and – after a few false epiphanies – I think I’ve got it figured out.

    After trying out assorted scenarios – sometimes the same match – in different ways on Top Player, Superstar and Legend, it turns out that there are two principal features that are completely screwing up Master League at the moment:

    1: PES 2020 ML can and often is enforcing input delay *in addition to* the usual player reaction debuffs to make matches harder. I can explain in greater detail if anyone wants me to, but the net effect is that they apply something akin to what you’d get in a shitty high-latency online match – endless player selection issues, players running over or away from the ball when it’s right next to them, and torturously slow response times. It’s absolutely artificial, and utterly ridiculous: they’re simulating lag to heighten the difficulty! PES 2020 does have problems in these general areas, but I’ve also experienced sequences of matches where the game flows beautifully with hardly any hitches, and it’s some of the best videogame football I’ve ever experienced.

    “Lag matches” can occur due to low TS relative to the opposing team. I’ve played Top Player matches that feel just as bad as anything you’d get on Superstar. You can get ten, twenty or thirty of these awful fixtures in a row where your players feel incredibly heavy, but the AI team is doped to the eyeballs on every performance-enhancing variable possible.

    2: But TS isn’t all of it. These “impede the player, boost the AI” scripts can kick in at any time, and I think there’s something in the ML front-end code that triggers them when you reach a certain position in your division. All of a sudden, most opposing teams will employ defensive tactics and put no more than two or three forwards into your half. They’re unlikely to beat you this way, so some absolute bastard at PES Productions has made the decision to apply those horrible low-TS penalties – including the “input delay” suite of game-fucking shenanigans – to all fixtures played in these circumstances to maintain the difficulty level.

    (By the way: the oft-maligned “Deep Defensive Line” instruction is not the devil it’s thought to be. The AI, when it’s set to be shite, will camp in an equivalent way without it, and more besides.)

    While researching what ails PES 2020 for the past few days, I’ve had games with a Man City god squad in season one, with 99 TS, where I cannot string more than three passes together, or turn away from obvious hoover-tackles, or easily select a single player in a position to contest the ball while defending. But I also had another save last night where I set Southampton up to fail by selling most of their best players and replacing them with mostly journeymen Englishmen, then simmed ahead for 20 matches until they were 15 points adrift at the bottom. The early post-Xmas matches were awful – but after half a dozen games and TS up to 70 or so, PES 2020 starting offering the most responsive, varied and interesting matches I’ve played so far. Every opposing team set up to attack, and some of them beat me with the sheer quality of their football – not arbitrary, spiteful and ill-considered control-based nerfs. These were 10/10 games. (Possibly 11 for the one where I came back from 2-0 down against Newcastle United to win 3-2 in stoppage time, or the 3-1 defeat against an electric Man City.)

    New front-end features in PES and FIFA are rarely ever honed and polished after the year of introduction – they’re often abandoned, and sometimes forgotten when they’re still an active or integral part of the game. What I’ve seen in recent days tells me that PES 2020 ML matches *can* play exhilarating, authentic and thoroughly enjoyable end-to-end football from fixture to fixture and still offer a challenge. The reason it so often doesn’t is almost certainly something to do with data that ML is providing to the match engine. The question is: has someone with no real skill or insight into the game set it up to be this way for this year, or are we all suffering from legacy ML settings from last year because nobody thought to update them?

  17. James – when it is good the game is fantastic and had my best session so far this morning. Point 2 is the important one for me. I have always paid a lot of attention to the attack/defence levels of the CPU teams. It seems to be that the quality of the games goes up when the opposition start the game at attacking level in the red zone. When the game is playing up I tend to revert to defensive levels myself.

  18. NG – I found a clip of the build up to that goal but didn’t give me the option to upload it to YouTube.

    I totally agree with you about the variety of goals as they all feel like the types you see playing on-line. This was what stood out for me with Fifa 19 as every goal felt different and there were some belting long ranges before the nerf came along. Personally I find it a bigger crime than no fouls football. Depressing.

  19. NG – fouls patch incoming apparently for pc (check out the dt18 thread). Interested to say the least. It’s the “supernova” one.

  20. James — for all my current grumpiness with the game there’s no question it plays wonderfully sometimes. With a sprinkling of a few fouls and some great goals it could be the best-ever… Re. various nerfs it employs to make the game play how they want it to, I notice number 2 more than number 1.

    Darryl — to upload anything from within Capture Gallery just press the Share button. To save a vid to Capture Gallery from live play without uploading, after pressing Share just press Square and it will auto-save to the PS4 hard drive, for you to look at later and do any editing on before uploading. This is how I treat 99% of all my goal replays — very very rarely do I upload whilst playing live. Always save, then edit and upload later.

    #1 — just had a quick look and it seems they’re just talking about the same few things for now — ball heaviness etc. — do you mean on the spreadsheet? I can’t access anything like that now, at work, will look later. Something needs to move soon or it’ll never happen I fear.

  21. NG – no it’s a post further back. If you search for Supernova you’ll find it. It has a list of things the makers have accomplished among which an increase in fouls due to a tweak in cpu behaviour.

  22. James – do you think it’s length of play session that kicks this off?
    After my few days break playing the excellent Frostpunk I had 5 games this morning all good. Not even session variance like playing a different game variance.

  23. On a bus in Bristol, and we’ve just passed through a place called Willy Wicket. It sounds like a game they might play at Eton.

  24. Darryl, Prsgame – Session variance is absolutely, categorically a thing that PES 2020 does, because I’ve been testing that, too.

    I’ve had several instances this week where I’ve played the first minute of a match, then closed down the application and started over. It started as an attempt to understand how the PES 2020 match engine either is or isn’t applying tactical instructions (and I’ve a lot to say on that matter, if anyone’s interested), but I then spent half an hour looking into how the game appears to be cycling through match templates.

    You can broadly tell what you’re going to get in league fixtures from which ATT/DEF setting the AI switches to straight after kick-off. In six starts away from home against a relegation-threatened Crystal Palace with an identical line-up and tactics, with not a single adjustment, they started with blue bar four times, white once, and red once.

    Something that I’m wondering about, but have yet to try, is to roll the dice until I get an opponent I’d expect to start defensive go to white or red from the start, then finish the match and see if *all* subsequent teams faced in that session follow suit. Is it possible to trigger a “golden session” this way?

    One thing is for sure: there are multiple overlapping systems that are making PES play really bad, repetitive, frustrating football match after match, when there’s absolutely no reason for it to do so. The AI is perfectly capable of offering excellent to epic matches in pretty much every session – but instead, it’s usually being instructed to assail us with all that “ten men behind the ball” shit.

    The mind boggles.

    NG – most of my testing has been on Superstar, where it can often apply layers of penalties that stop just short of Konami sending the goons around to your house to break a few fingers. But the Southampton save is on Top Player, and it definitely applied the Superstar-style input delays, player switching issues and glacial player reactions before TS went up and the game switched into an entirely different mode.

    Something that I’m looking into that you (and others here) might be able to help me with, because anecdotal confirmation or further insights would help:

    There are lots of “blue bar” matches on Top Player/SS/Legend where it feels as if opposing teams are pressing heavily and marking your forwards (SMFs, AMFs, SSes, WFs and CFs in particular) out of the game, but they’re actually doing *nothing of the sort*. When you’re in a shit session, or TS/league position debuffs/capricious PES fuckery are conspiring to serve up a bad game, it seems that the match choreography system just runs your attacking players much further upfield than usual, and pretty much makes them stand next to their deep-lying opponents who exploit reaction and acceleration boosts when you pass in that direction.

    I’m rocking a 4-3-3 with two CMs and an AMF at the moment, as this seems to be the best all-seasons system for ML, and it facilitates some great flowing football. I can pretty much tell you when I’m going to have a bad match by the positioning of the wingers and AMF. If it’s a good game, they sit deeper and regularly find a half-yard of space to make them open for a pass. If it’s a bullshit game, they’ll stand in an offside position *when I’m defending and the ball is in my half*. I can change the wide guys to LMFs or RMFs, and it doesn’t make a great deal of difference. A global formation change leads to exactly the same situation.

    There’s an equivalent effect in your half when blue bar bullshit is strong: your opponent might have one, two, max three players near the halfway line, but your defenders will give them ten or twenty yards of space to pick up a pass and turn. Marking instructions do nothing to address this.

    Are you (and everyone else) noticing this? Now I’ve seen it, I’d say that it’s a feature of all the worst matches. If you stop and look, you can see how your opponent’s shape is uniform and indicative of their system (4-2-3-1, 4-5-1, et al), whereas you appear to get a weird, ragged 4-2-4 whether you want it or not.

  25. James – concerning your last point, I’m not seeing it thAt much on professional.

    Meanwhile the Serie B and Italian football in general in PES 2020 is really easy to conquer or so it seems. I’m 10 points clear and over the halfway point now. I just beat sampdoria 4-0 (!) in The copa Italia and am mostly still default-only except for a CF, CB and CMF , all mid 70 rated. The CPU only ever can get a result through shenanigans but even then they almost always come up short. A sharp contrast compared to the championship where I only started getting consistent results toward the end of the season. Team strength really is a thing again.

    Also, there is a weird thing in the Serie B (serie A as well i suspect) where I have about 12 subs I can use instead of the usual 6. Very weird. Does anyone if that is the case in Italy in real life as well? Looks like a bug to me. Also my corner taker and free kick takers are reset every single game to Vasilj. Madness!

  26. #1 – I’m currently watching as Supernova is about to upload his mod. There are caveats it seems – the game seems to auto-override things after a few matches, he says – but it’s a hell of a start.

    The PC scene is very exciting. This is the first year since I got the PC that I’ve jumped in from the start and I’m really enjoying it.

    James – your appetite for testing and experiment is much to your credit. I played for a few sessions with the 4-3-3 you describe but found the AI could weirdly nullify me more easily than with a wide midfield. Perhaps the nerf effect you mention there. And you are on console, yes? You mention closing the PES application at one point. The PC modders are all saying that the values they can get at aren’t the ones they need to get at to securely alleviate the most obnoxious features of the AI, which is interesting as it indicates some degree of methodical deliberation by the devs. I.e. they want only the gameplay they design to be dominant. Not even the PC platform is allowed to get away easily. I see the red hidden hand of online gaming in everything, but this is a cert I think.

  27. Magic, free-flowing and varied football has ended at the start of season two in my Southampton save. PES adaptive difficulty caught on to the fact that I’ve been really enjoying it, and is now doing its utmost to make me go outside and do something less boring instead.

    A couple of lesser-known dirty tricks that PES 2020 employs when you’ve gone too long without a defeat, or have poor TS, that I’ve not mentioned yet but have seen countless times tonight:

    * When you receive a pass and the opposing team is in the pace boost/aggression boost state, some utterly benighted sadist has added a feature where a narrow cone of left stick inputs relative to an incoming defender will briefly not work after you take a first touch in most standard scenarios. You see a guy running directly at you, and naturally tap the stick 180 degrees away for a turn to face the opposite direction – but no you don’t, because they disable that specific input for the best part of a second. This one is maddening, because there’s absolutely no reason why that should be the case, other than to give the AI a huge tackling boost and frustrate the player. (This might also be the principal cause of players running the ball out of play despite you pressing the stick one, twice, thrice and watching them just coast without so much as a flicker of acknowledgement. The ball is running into touch; they are running in the same direction; an instinctive 180-degree away from direction of travel tilt of the stick is a natural thing to do – but nah, it’s fucked.)

    * Off-the-ball acceleration and sprint speed for your players in broadly “on rails” scenarios – such as when they’re running towards a pass, or attempting to reach a through-ball – can be vastly reduced to heighten difficulty. You know it’s a bad match when a 90+ pace winger running at full pelt will suddenly slow down in a race to a moving ball and get bleached by a defender who usually couldn’t even catch a cold from him. (This is separate to situations where a player has the ball at their feet and is in full flight because, oddly, they don’t mess around with that and always preserve the advantage for the forward once he’s ahead – a global feature designed to prevent pouting from the kiddies online who *hate* catch-up mechanics ruining their masterful press of the triangle/Y button.)

    In other news: I had a game against newly-promoted Huddersfield that bore all the hallmarks of a shit match that everyone online screams “scripted!” at. I tried a dozen resets, and a handful of adjustments to engender a match template change – but every time, they went blue defensive and activated the advanced instruction that gives sides greater width (an especially obnoxious combination). So it seems that resetting the game to get/restore a “golden session” might not work. That said, I did note an odd effect after simming a match that I’ll look at when I can next bear to start the game.

    All of the adaptive difficulty mechanisms that I’m having an issue with – and I know I’m not alone – just feel like punishments for playing. I really question the need for artificially doping AI players and/or fucking around with play/input mechanics to make life hard for the person with the controller in their hands.

    From personal experience: as the AI dials the bullshit up, I become more conservative in my playmaking, and will just move the ball around until I can find a chance I really like the look of in a situation where the AI is less equipped to deal with it. My average possession actually goes *up* to the 65%-70% range (unless it’s a low-rated opposing team playing keepball – my least favourite AI match template) when I start having “it’s time for you to lose” games. Meanwhile, the AI will often try to fashion big chances with Hollywood passes, and just generally stops playing as well as it might usually.

    Net result: the handicaps lead to truly tedious matches where I can rarely play more than two or three games before I cannot be arsed anymore. I’m still winning, but PES keeps turning the screws until every fixture is unbearable.

    I’d rather have a PES where I have to maintain a sufficient level of challenge via house rules than the mean-spirited mess of handicaps that PES 2020 employs. Saturday night, I was enjoying every second of winning narrowly or drawing. Because I didn’t lose enough for the satisfaction of an ML adaptive difficulty algorithm, I’m now pretty much hating every second of winning narrowly or drawing.

    Seriously: who signs off on shit like this?

  28. NG – supernova patch is out, not much more fouls it seems. As there are quite some hoops to jump through to get it all working I think I’ll pass until a later time.

    In other “news” Italian football remains shockingly easy. I am now 20(!) points clear and the first 4 top scorer spots are all occupied by my players.

    Teams all play the same (ultra defensive as you would expect in Italy) and they are far less “aware” than championship teams. What I mean by that is that there is no sense of urgency when I’m clearly winning in a 2-leg cup tie. (For example) Tactics don’t change and they just meander a bit across the pitch , waiting for me to score. Even a team like Inter plays this way and only through the sheer quality of their players ( they scored two absolute screamers, from outside of the box and off the inside of the post) did they narrowly knock me out of the Copa Italia quarter final. Maybe even because I subconsciously didn’t *want* to win as well. Doesn’t feel right to win silverware of any kind in the first Master League season. Dreading to go Top Player just yet because of all the shenanigans I’ve read about here.

    Anyway, Did a little experiment just now on a championship save I had lying around where I was up against Leeds in the fa cup. Scored a beauty of a curler from about 25 meters with Vrany (my best goal yet by the way) and immediately they switched to “red”. In the dying minutes they switched to “ultra red” and I was up against it but was also gifted acres of space on the counter. Not once have I seen this happen in the Serie b. Seems like there is a bit more care given “under the hood” to some teams / leagues than others. Quite logical since they just got Serie B, it’s likely that they didn’t do too much with it and just made sure it was there.

  29. Currently 13th with 13 games of season 3 gone. Good job I am not superstitious. Enjoying the game much more on TP in the premiership.

    Going back to the variance of sessions I do believe switching the playstation off rather than putting it in rest mode seems to make a difference. For convenience the norm is for me to put it into rest mode. The best two sessions I have had is when I have broken this habit.

  30. Some interesting comments, particularly from James due to his deep-dive testing, and points I can totally confirm and relate to.

    Finished season 3 last night, with 3 games to go, I was in 10th, I couldn’t really move up or down so the last 3 games were pretty much ‘nothing games’.

    Nether the less, what ensued was 3 of the most horrible dogshit ridden, baked in the sun white-turd, cheating affairs I have ever witnessed from any game.

    Spurs – lost 5-1. I have not conceded 5 in any of my ML seasons so far, even with much lesser players than I have now.
    The game started and ended the same way, my inputs were delayed or ignored, players switching went into ‘recovering from anaesthesia’ mode and left me unable to select a player 2 yards away from a loose ball in a dangerous area, 5 yard passes were always intercepted, and then on top of all that, was the ‘COM battering Ram Boost’ whereby COM players just run into your players and smash them to the ground WWE style with absolutely no penalty.

    Regardless of stats, every COM player is faster, stronger and just dispossess you at will, mainly due to the ‘Angry Wasp Mode’ which sees 3 COM players swarm your player with the ball the second he gets near it, and of course, the auto shield does not work for you, instantly lose the ball, yet 3 of your players cannot tackle a COM player who just holds them all off whilst turning and shooting and scoring.

    Chelsea – Lost 5-0.
    See the Spurs game above, rinse and repeat.

    Cant even really remember the last game of the season, I was too pissed off and angry to really concentrate, think I lost 1-0.

    The game cheats, disables inputs, strangles stats, and basically just follows a pre-determined code that says you will NOT win under any circumstance.

    After finishing season 3 I saved and backed up my ML save and exported my ML team as a /Ted file to USB, systematically went into edit mode and deleted every kit, competition, sponsor and other logo, then went into PS4 system storage and deleted all edit files.
    Turned PS4 off completely, and had dinner.

    Later that night I downloaded the PES Universe V2 option file which adds MLS, J-League and updates various team,s kits etc, a fresh install is suggested hence my previous deleting of all files.

    Powered up the PS4, Installed V2, re-imported my saved ML team, changed my kits to new ones for season 4 and loaded up ML, played first game of Season 4 – It was Spurs – same as game last season, but a 2-0 defeat this time.

    So a power off, new season, delete edit data etc all doesn’t prompt a change to ‘golden’ or even acceptable session.

    Match 2 of season 4 – Man Utd, again same as previous matches, complete BS, they race into a 3-0 lead before half time, game finishes 4-2, with my blue form arrow CF missing two one on ones in the final 5 mins.

    3rd Match – West Brom – much more palpable match, we won 2-0.

    There is no pattern to the BS the game gives you, its just always there ready to pounce.
    When the game isn’t in C*nt mode, its a great game, unfortunately C*nt mode acccounts for 60% of all matches right now.

  31. Paul/James -– a long weekend for me of working and when not working watching the PC modding section of EvoWeb. I’m still happy with the general gameplay of my Top Player ML and gagging to get back to it today, so I’m nowhere near the view of things that you both sort-of share.

    #1 – yes, a bit deflating to see that the mod involves so much legwork. I just grabbed one of the 15GB All In One Sider installations that people have kindly uploaded and will be testing that out. I’m enjoying tinkering with the PC version, that’s for sure.

    Over on the PS4 things are still mostly OK, although I know for sure that I’ll be pissed off in about a month, if fouls are still the same (they pretty much will be; no game dev in the year 2019 has the courage to do what PES Productions would need to do, i.e. piss off the Speedball-loving players online, which will be most of them). PES2018 was also a pretty good game on the pitch, but the 0.75 fouls per match destroyed its credibility, and the same judgement will fall upon PES2020 if need be.

    Darryl – that’s 100% true, a session in PES is a ‘switch-on’ session, rather than a rest-to-rest session. And this has been the way since PES2. I remember discussing PES3 session variance at length with a work colleague in 2003.

  32. The session variance being dictated by a pure ‘Power on or off’ is false, as I have explained above.

    Do you not see ANY overpowered COM pressure, barging your players off the ball with no penalty, inputs delayed or ignored, then NG ?

  33. I can’t say I’m having the same problems on Top Player too. Superstar was hell, and all the things you’ve described are there in force, but TP seems a world away from that, thank God. While the cpu can, and does use some of it’s old tricks here and there, it’s generally plain sailing. I’m one game away from finishing season 3 (again!) and I’ve had two losses since January. Even in one of my recent games against Liverpool, it felt like the game had pre-determined it was going to win, and even with the Konam-o-meter turned up to 11, I still managed a 2-0 win.

    Needless to say I’m thoroughly enjoying the game again. It’s not a case of “you only sing when you’re winning” (although, I’m sure it helps) but more that I can actually play the game to something roughly resembling it’s best. Not the cheating, laggy, handicapped BS of Superstar.

  34. Paul – I think it is variance depending on how many games you play in a row. I haven’t done the extreme testing James has done but when I think to the first week with the game and how crippling it is when you are playing sessions of maybe 10-15 games at a time. Now when It has scaled back for me and I’m maybe 3 a time it doesn’t bite me as much.
    I don’t get the angry wasp but I definitely get the players running through mud. We need a whistleblower dev to answer it one day

  35. Paul – I see loads of it, I’m furious about the non-penalising of physical pressure and I have an uneasy feeling about the destiny of PES2020 despite its goodness at times, but remember I’m some way behind the curve still in D2, mid-season 3, and things are relatively gentle most of the time.

    Power sessions vs rest sessions: the problem with nu-nuPES is that the argy-bargy no-fouls thing isn’t session-based but a continuous element of the game.

  36. NG – what all in one patch is that? The Evoweb patch thingy or..?

  37. So the Devs are making PES a game that you can only play max of 3 matches in, and you cant win too many, what a disgrace.

    Maybe its time to give up footy games in totality.

  38. My copy of PES 2020 is currently sitting on top of a pile of old DVDs and games destined for CEX. Only the patch of all patches can save it now.

    Meanwhile, I’m stuck happily playing PS2 PES. Had a few games on PES5 over the weekend. Eight points off Man Utd at the top of Div 1 but flying in the WEFA Championships and the FA Cup.

    I think I made a big mistake releasing 33-year-old former top scorer Jean Pierre Papin in the January window though. He was snapped up by second-placed Villa and already has six goals for them.

    Anyway, I’m folllowing the nuPES progress with interest but with not one flicker of temptation to try 2020 again in its current state.

  39. Paul – you know my love for long-range goals. I’ve known for 15 years that if I get one I’m not to allowed to score another one in the same match, and likely not in the same power session either. This has been upped in recent years to include so much more than just long-range goals.

    #1 – the PES2020 Ultimate patch about halfway down the first post here: https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/13-10-2019-ultimate-facepack-ultimate-patch-biraitbec.80641/

    Up to date from Saturday. It’s got everything all in one, stadia, turfs, a gameplay mod (that I might not use), etc. 9GB download file expands to a 15GB Sider folder. I’ve backed up my old one of course. At the time I torrented it — Sat night – there were a few hundred in the swarm. Not tried it yet as I haven’t been near anything other than a browser since Friday.

  40. Shed – I’d keep your copy until at least the 24th (a week Thursday). We all know that no modern footy game dev has anything like the courage needed to do what needs to be done, but it’ll still be better to see for yourself.

  41. Indeed NG – closest long ranger I’ve had is about 25 yards.

    COM scored a 44 yard against me last night. I have the turf pattern set to stripes across the pitch, one stripe is 6 yards in width, so the distance to the FK was easily measurable as around 44 yards.

    I didnt even bother jumping because it was so far out, I assumed the COM player would cross it but nope, laser-guided bullet straight rocket powered FK from 44 yds direct into the top corner postage stamp style.

    I just had to laugh.

  42. Hmm, PC version peaking my interest once again…

  43. I refuse to spend £700 on a PC just to play a game they cant get right on the PS4, with all the tinkering and installing and updating and crap that goes with it, would be a non-starter for me.

  44. Paul – Ha, yes. My old lump probably wouldn’t play it very well anyway. But if I had the spondulicks I probably would have bitten by now.

  45. Anyone else had the AI score an overhead kick from Trevor Sinclair range direct from a lobbed in free-kick from halfway line or has that just happened to me for the 5th time?

  46. Tommy/Paul – I made some noob choices 2 years ago for my then-£679 gaming PC, mainly with the cheap-and-loud power supply and motherboard, and have only just upgraded it now to the point where I have a nicely quiet PC running games at top specs, which should be the aim. If I was doing it again now it’d be more like £800.

    prsgame – the AI is always trying them against me! I’d say I’ve seen about 8 attempts at it over the 3 seasons so far. Some got very close and they were all as you describe. Hard-coded attempts.

    I’ve just finished a long session that was great, true 9/10 level stuff. It helped of course that it was my first action since Friday.

    I ended on a run of wins, the sort where the game points it out to you, and am just waiting now for the bullshit match that forces he run to end. If I get time I might do a little test of my own and replay that match, when it comes.

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