Not planning to chuck Berrio

In the transfer window before Season 3 I made a point of favouring players with a Speed stat of 80 or more. BERRIO is a 30-year-old Free Agent with pretty average stats in most areas – except Speed, which is a preposterous 91 at this stage of his imaginary career.

Berrio’s the type of player who usually vanishes from my squad and my mind following the first or second transfer window after promotion… or is he? I fancy something different this year in terms of the transfer merry-go-round. I might favour Journeymen, Youths, and Regens. Even though the game will clearly let me sign anyone I want no matter what, it’s palpably a better game and a better experience with lesser players. So Berrio might be here to stayio.

In his first match Berrio scored a hat trick. There he is above with the matchball. And this was his hat trick goal:

That searching aerial through-ball was supplied by my other big new signing, one D CROWLEY from Birmingham City. Only 72 for Speed, he makes up for it with a very Castledine-like silky feel about him. He cost me almost all of my £20m transfer budget and demanded the highest wage I’ve yet paid out – £1.1m a year.

I had other negotiations to do with contract renewals in the squad. It would be good if Crowley’s inflated wage prompted resentment and a desire for parity among my other players. But they were happy enough with the pittances I offered. Eventually. Rice caused a hairy moment when he turned me down at first.I went back with a slightly better offer and he was fine. The same happened with a few other players too. Including Beto, my very promising Youth promotee keeper whom I have decided to pick in place of the more experienced Begovic. There’s not much between them, and Beto could do with the games.

That very slight bit of trouble the game threw my way in contract negotiations with my own players was the first real sign of actual difficulty on my Hard Negotiations setting. Which I have otherwise found to be the EASIEST EVER.

My First XI (when all are fit and in form) and the rest of my squad:Ramirez at left back is a Youth player with 84 Speed. Salomonsson at RB (still on the bench for now) is another Youth, a Regen in this case, and has similar stats. Their pace really shows. Never again will I be caught out of position and done for pace at the back the way I was in the Playoff Final. It still hurts.

I’m light at central defence, so a decent CB with good pace is top of the shopping list for January.

After spending all my budget in pre-season, I have already (by December) accumulated £8m in transfer funds and about £4m salary budget. I am also on Small budget settings.

So this is life with a Small Budget and Hard Negotiations. One can only wonder what life is like with a Large Budget and Easy Negotiations!

Heading for mid-season of Season 3, I have a firm intention to win promotion outright. No more Playoff tension for me. A season in D2 is too much work for it to rest on the outcome of three matches. Automatic promotion is the only target.

Here is the table – very exciting:My goal-scoring needs to pick up. You have to go down to below mid-table to find a team that’s scored fewer than mine. But I easily have the best defensive record in the division.

Top Player is still giving me good matches most of the time, although matches in which the AI is curiously passive and doesn’t manage a single shot on goal are becoming a bit too numerous. Superstar might come along soon. Although I will probably wait for the Premier League.

Updated: 8th October 2019 — 11:47


  1. Nice Tidy finish and an even better lofted through ball there NG !
    Are you still playing on -1 Speed ? I’ve switched back to -1 speed as the period of fuckery last night was also throwing up 1000 mph matches, a far cry away from the slow heavy pace of the demo just a month and a bit ago.

    The only real transfer difficulties I have is signing higher rated players from other clubs, its often the difference in stature of clubs that goes against me, which is a good thing, I shouldn’t be able to snipe Wilson from Bournemouth into my lowly pub team.

    Still really enjoying my ML despite all the frustrations, the game has lasted longer than PES 19 already so that’s a good sign.

    Also keep flitting between Live Broadcast and Custom Stadium Cam, 6,0,8
    Like the detail and aesthetic of the close-in broadcast style, but sometimes need a further field of view to spot runs.

  2. Paul – that kind of aerial through ball is one of the things I’d miss on PA0 (although as Lloyd has shown it’s still perfectly possible to play them).

    I’m fully settled on Stadium and acclimatised to the angles. I wouldn’t want to play now on the touchline-style cam that we’ve had to suffer for 12 years. PS2 style settings of Wide with Angle 1-10 would be ideal of course, but this is pretty much the same. I will really check my exact numbers later and post them.

  3. n-G – You could always take the first reply to contract negotiations as a done deal, thereby forcing you to replace a stalwart player like Rice. I’ve done this on previous PESes. It’s basically a house rule of course but my word this ML needs them.

    Nice Berrio goal. Was that floaty pass a lofted through-ball or just a long ball? I’ve mainly been playing short pass and move game. Maybe I need to mix it up a bit.

  4. Ng – yeah post them up, like trying new angles every few matches, faux-simulates different television angles like you get in FIFA.

    As I’ve mentioned the shennanigans of the game, should mention a couple of nice matches I had, an 89th minute winner over Man Utd after being 2-0 down to come back and win 3-2, and a nice 94th minute winner against Newcastle with a FK from my DMF, Fernando, followed up by another FK win vs Watford from the same man.

  5. I’ve dropped to -1 as well.

    January brought few youth team stars for me but loads of free agent regens of the sort I like. I’m in negotiations now but am confident I can replace everyone on loan except Robben and am happy selling van persie as he’s not quick, he’s not strong and consequently doesn’t have the edge needed in superstar imho. Hopeful of being able to unveil them soon.

    It’s the irony of this pes that they talked about Iniesta helping them with their dribbling, etc and yet Iniesta is exactly the kind of player who would have the shit knocked out of him time and time again by the bollocks AI physicality.

  6. Uncle Turf — I’d be surprised if Iniesta did anything more than appear for the cameras for PR purposes. Similarly I’ve always wondered over the years just how much actual jumping about gets done by all the sports stars who stand in front of cameras wearing black suits with pingpong balls on them. Also similarly, when the Apprentices troop into Lord Alan’s boardroom with their suitcases, they’re not their suitcases and there’s nothing in them.

  7. Paul — that’s a lot of bend on those FKs! I’m still on the 1-in-4 sort of level I was with PES2019. And I’ve seen that cutscene after a late winner a few times now — where your player(s) all storm over to the bench and the manager joins them in a pile of celebration — and there’s something peculiar about it. Note how the manager sort of falls face-down beside the player as if they’re sunbathing on the beach together. The manager is careful to be adjacent to the pile rather than a part of it.

  8. Shed — it was a triangle through-ball. I think I was still on -2 for that game (on -1 now, although even this sometimes feels a touch fast).

    I’m sort of having to observe a house rule for this shoddy-arsed ML. I could easily have a PES2016-style carousel of players coming and going all the time if I want (even on Small budget/Hard negotiations, which is what sticks in the craw even more), but that doesn’t make for a good experience. Youths, Regens, and Journeymen for me.

  9. NG – Fernando, my FK taker, has a Curl stat of 82, anything over 80 and you can get some great whip on them, just like PES 19 though they are far too easy.

    The last minute winner all-pile-in cutscene is as annoying as the manager ranting then immediately giving the thumbs up, in that the manager, assistant manager, subs etc all run on to the pitch and bundle the player, if a manager, assistant and subs did that IRL they’d be sanctioned, fined etc, just like Klopp was.

  10. Paul — they’re still not easy for me, and the likes of Uncle Turf can’t score any, so they’re not objectively easy at all. A bit like the FK circle-jump, I suppose you’ve got to know the trick in the bones of your fingers. With my 100% record for blocking all shooting range FKs on PS4 (literally 100%), I could say that doing so is easy but it wouldn’t be true. It’s all relative to the player.

  11. NG – I know, was a playful quip back to our debate over 19’s FK’s.
    I don’t score 100% of mine, sometimes I overpower or under power, but if its on target, its pretty much a goal.

    Would be confident that if you gave me 20 shooting range FK’s, I’d score at least 12-15 of them.

    Still look nice when they go in though.

  12. Paul — I know the sweet spot for them, I just find I overshoot or undershoot it a lot more frequently than you do. Given 20 shooting range FKs I’d be confident of getting 7-9 over the wall and on-target. You bid quite low!

  13. I see the Playstation 5 has been confirmed for Christmas 2020, with an estimated price tag of £450.

    That’s it then, we’re almost at the end of this generation of PES. How frustrating that the game is still lacking so much of what made PES so great back on the PS1, PS2 and PS3 (occasionally).

  14. it is just all about stopping the power gauge in between that 50-65% range, i put it down to the spacebar mashing Ninja game back on the Spectrum, obviously stood me in good stead over the years.

  15. Shed — yes, lots of talk about the new controller, and I wonder how this will affect next year. FIFA will have a PS5 entry for sure. Will PES? There wasn’t a PS4 PES2014, or a PS3 PES6… The Xbox360 PES6 (a covert series classic and better than the ‘real’ PES6 IMO) was probably an exception. But times have changed and if PES2021 doesn’t have a PS5 edition it will lose strategic ground and the marketing men won’t like FIFA being left to dominate the multiplayer scene alone… interesting times.

  16. I am a bit of a camera angle nut and like to check out all the camera changes. I had settled on Stadium 3,4,7 but then discovered this today. I twiddled with the angle setting to see what difference it made. I tried 3,4,1 instead as I thought it gave an interesting perspective. This angle is superb as the angle changes when you get into the final third and goes side on. This helps with crossing as you can track the movement into the box better. I have included a video so you can see for yourself. I doubt I would have scored this goal with the other camera.

  17. Damn this Legend. 6 games one draw, 5 loses. Time to get back to Superstar I suppose. Legend is just impossible now for me, for some reason at the end of previous season it was fine, at the beginning of new one it is definitely not. Some kind of hidden momentum? Kind of hidden transfers influence? No idea. TS is still same, so it can’t be this.

    Besides that I just tried MLB The Show 19 from psplus, I’m really impressed with career mode in this game, couldn’t stop playing yesterday, did any of you give it a shot by any chance?

  18. Darryl — I’ve got a lesser version of that where the sideline tracking stops well short of the penalty box. Until PES2008 came along on PS3, playing with the side-on angle was the only way anyone really played PES. I remember Suffwan on an old WENB podcast in 2007 saying how much he wanted Wide Angle 1-10 back — but it was 2019(!) before we had the choice again on consoles. I’m loving the return to that now.

    abbes — I’m a baseball fan (Cleveland in particular, but this year, ‘Go Braves’) and grabbed MLB as soon as it appeared. Not got around to playing it yet as I’ve bene too busy with PES and other things. I’ve played loads of baseball games over the years and always enjoyed them.

    A video from the PC PES side of things — late last night, experimenting with an altered .exe and a new dt_18 file, I didn’t see any fouls, but in one of my test games (in ML with the OG Defaults, Top Player) I was 0-1 down to QPR for most of a match. Then the much-maligned (by me) Hamsun did this in injury time (dodgy CB and GK and it was a dodgy gameplay-altered experiment, but I still had ‘the feeling’):

  19. NG – and here’s another thing – I’ve drunk ‘a pint’ as an extra in George gently, and it’s not beer….

    The problem with free kicks is not only how few I get in shooting range, but that I seem to stick on 50% then do a last gasp over compensation press to make it 75% and fly over the bar. I can’t get it in that over the wall/under the bar zone. In contrast to the AI who in my experience have done exactly as Paul has said – scored every single time I have failed to time the jump. They simply don’t seem capable of putting a free kick high or wide.

    I like baseball, I liked it on the spectrum, i like watching it on the tv, but really baseball is just cricket in short trousers.

  20. Lovely goal that nG and I agree about needing a bit of pace in the team, makes a massive difference when you can get into the space between opposition defence and midfield when breaking.

    I’ve made it up to January in season 3, top of the Championship by 4 points but there are 3 teams all 4 points behind so no room for mistakes. A couple of very good games against the better teams in the league, best games on PES for years on the pitch. It feels like this is the pinnacle of the nuPES vision, no fouls and all.

    I’m finding more things I don’t like in the ML though. There may be a 2nd ML at some point subject to PC mods and if that happens I’ll be enforcing a few house rules.

  21. Cook – taking into account my playstyle, I’ve found nothing in the PC mod world so far for gameplay. Lots of good work with the dt18 file for ball heaviness and general gamespeed etc, but nothing when it comes to fouls. Considering that this seems to be what almost everyone watching and working wants, but it hasn’t happened yet…

    Loving the 1440p action with turfs and stadia etc though. This time next year will be interesting with the PS4/PS5 situation in place – which way will the PC version jump?

    Uncle Turf – you can head onto the training pitch at any time and take FKs. The power bar seems a bit too fast for me as well but I can hit it enough times to be acceptable.

  22. I think I’m done with PES 2020 until they offer some kind of meaningful gameplay patch – if they ever do.

    Legend is interesting, especially as it forgoes quite a few of the player team nerfs that characterise Superstar, but they ramp up the difficulty by instead making every opponent run at 1000mph, with supernatural reactions. They can close you down from twenty yards away in a heartbeat, while simultaneously making little zig-zags in and out of potential passing lanes – especially when you telegraph your intentions by pressing the left stick in a direction. Input reading is rife.

    It’s as if the AI gets to play the fastest, most breathless iteration of NuPES you can think of, while you get what most of us here see as the promise of PES 2020: players with weight, and momentum, who take a little time to align for what you have in mind.

    I haven’t shipped many goals against Legend in the dozen or so that I’ve played since this time last night, but most have come as I’ve tried to clear, pass or head the ball – the AI will just sprint in and kick it into the net, or play a perfect first-time pass to someone else to do so, while your player swings or stumbles in the direction of a cartoon-style ball cloud “ghost outline”.

    With anything but a god squad, it seems that there’s only one way to play Legend – and that’s to play to the rails, even if you don’t like where they’re leading. Improvisation, adaptation: there’s no point trying to mix things up, as your players only seem to respond with any speed if you play to where they’re going. If there’s the slightest hesitation or pathfinding issue (and both are rife), the AI will be on you in a flash and trigger another high-speed counter.

    I don’t want every match to be pretty much the same, or to play just for the sake of winning. It’s about the quality, variety and imagination of the football played, and the stories that emerge. I also have no appetite for a mode where 90 pace and acceleration in every position could be seen not as an advantage, or a valid approach, but a necessity.

    So: here’s hoping that PES Productions have a few surprises up their sleeves. Given the general shoddy state of playtesting and polish that pervades PES 2020, and the tight schedule that they work to, perhaps the forthcoming October patch represents them finishing development, as opposed to tuning what they regard as a truly street-ready game. But probably not, right?

  23. I’m not where James is yet but I am completely fed up of the worst foul balance in any pes I’ve ever played. Nicking the ball away from an opponent is sometimes called as a free kick, completely flattening them from behind is deemed a great tackle. I’ve now assembled a great team with my regens of chiellini, diarra, Andy Carroll, Pepe, and others to add to my five star loanee gang and I’m running wave after wave of attacks on,y to be kicked out of every final pass or shot on goal. He’s right every game is the same now. The demo really was better than this. It’s such a shame as I think there is something really great that could emerge.

  24. As promised several times over the last few days, my camera settings: Zoom 5, Height 10, Angle 6.

    Also in my late late session just now, with a few weeks of December still remaining, I signed a Youth player ahead of the window and was surprised to see him in my squad and selectable immediately. That should not be.

  25. I’m an Oakland Athletics fan, have been since I watched a game as a kid against the Cardinals and loved it. I wouldn’t say I’m an avid baseball fan though. But if you’re ever in Nottingham, just look for a guy in the city centre wearing an A’s cap, and it’s probably me as I wear it most days.

    I picked up MLB the show a few years ago, PS3 days I think. It was good, but I was imediately put off by the length of the individual games. With 140 odd games in a regular season, I got rid pretty sharpish. Life is too short.

  26. nG – I was hoping PC mods would be easier this year, they just need to replicate the demo after all, but it is so much more complicated, I can’t even imagine. The fact is the PC version gets better with time, the best version of the game will be available next summer. I appreciate you being the objective tester in these parts, I can’t always trust forumites views as proven by inability to understand averages.

    Regarding youths, you can loan them out at any time too, I was offered £6m but not gonna do it, new house rule. #brokenML.

  27. Back to PES, I’m in April season 3 and within 2 points of safety now. The game is still horrible, but I’m clawing together a few draws. I even bagged a win against the Cherries. I lost my first six-pointer against the Saints, and I’ve got another coming up against the Terriers. I can’t lose that one, or it could be all over.

    It’s horrible, but actually really great too. Pity that Challenge mode is hard-wired into ML. I’d happily take relegation on on the chin and do it all again from the Championship, but I’ve already been given the Board’s ultimatum of avoiding the drop or I’m toast. I’ve made a backup save just in case. Relegation is one thing, but I don’t fancy getting sacked, and dropping down to TP now would fee like cheating. Although, could I spend 6 months away and re-sign for Freebridge later down the line? I’d be like Zidane. It’s an option, I suppose.

  28. NG – Signing Youths is allowed at any time, just like it is in real life, as they are already part of your club, you are not transferring them in from an external club. This is right and proper. And has always been this way in PES.

  29. I noticed the youth signing at any time thing too. It hasn’t always been the case. Signing players from any pool, including youths, was greyed out and unavailable in PS2 era PES. I can’t recall signing youths at any time in PS3 PES either.

    I had a few matches on 2020 last night and it’s just not clicking with me. There’s just too much to have to take into account and work around to make it enjoyable. I play PES to unwind but, at this stage, PES 2020 winds me up.

    The AI, the lack of free kicks, half-arsed ML and all this ‘press L1 to counteract this and don’t forget super-cancel to work around that’ is just not what I want in the small window of time I have to play.

    I’ll wait for the October patch but I’m almost ready to write 2020 off as a promising but horribly flawed nuPES. 6/10.

  30. Cook – a few intensive days of work coming up for me but I will be keeping a close eye on the PC modding scene.

    Shed – I don’t think it’s another #goldencopy scenario but I’ve yet to see any of the real AI aggravation that pretty much everyone else has. The lacks of fouls on its own though is enough for me to be down on ’20 at the moment. It really is worse than PES2018 for fouls and I never thought we would ever get back there again. And then the really poor ML. I mean, I’ve lived with ‘it’s just signing players and playing matches’ angle before, and enjoyed it, and am still enjoying this one as far as it goes.

    Paul – well I must not have tried to sign a Youth outside the transfer window before in PES. My expectation last night was that the Youth signing I made would join the team on Jan 1st like any other signing. I’m aware that in real life many a club has to raid its Youth team(s) to field a side for cup matches etc. If I get time later I’ll fire up PES2019 on the PC and see if I can sign a Youth in whatever month I’m in there.

  31. Just as relegation was a first and dramatic experience for me a few years back so being sacked was this year. I’d recommend it to anyone – it’s made my story richer as let’s face it you’ll get an offer immediately, it’s not football manager and six months watching. Since boro fired me I’ve even been offered the England job – as if! Can you imagine a failed Middlesbrough manager getting the highest job in the land….

    My Charlton team now reads; Armani, anyutov, clichy, chiellini, Pepe, mascherano, riquipuig, barzaloglu (ish), diaby, Carroll and van persie (not sold as he came good). And that’s before I add in my loanees of pele, kompany, candreva, Joaquin, robben, falcao, Costa. And on the bench are moraes, gomis, sosa, etc etc etc. I’d much rather the game was fairer and the assembling of a squad was harder, this just feels like an arms race of get a brilliant team but face an increasingly ridiculous AI.

  32. NG – I’m pretty sure the youth signing has been there for the PS4 era PES’s, if not then they were broken and PES20 is correct, as any club as you know can promote youth players to the first team at any time they like, they are not transfers.

    Turf – A failed Middlesborough Manager becoming England manager …… hmmmmmm ………..

  33. Uncle Turf – the myClubbing of Master League…

    Tommy – you can sim MLB matches or of course play reduced innings matches. When I played a few full seasons on an old MLB game (on the original PSP) I did so with 4-innings matches, which are usually over in slightly less time than a 10-minute PES match, and I simmed every other match, accepting it as a necessary part of the game due to time.

  34. Been taking my customary week break after promotion and the first few games of the premier league. Usually, it’s like extreme session variance. I come back at it and think it’s the best game ever. Be interesting if that’s still the case.

  35. turf – Are they all regens? If it’s any consolation, while they’re fresh faced young whippersnappers, they’re a shadow of their later selves. My regen Robben is terrible right now, and with awful stamina. But then no one is shining right now under the oppression of Superstar AI. I’m considering selling him. The growth curve isn’t as steep these days, so it takes a while for them to be ay good. No 103ovr players these days, thank God.

  36. Tommy – if you’re not planning a long-term ML there’s no real point in Regens for you then. It does take 4-5 seasons before they spring into life. They’re a long-term investment.

    prsgame – I’m still thinking this could be one of the best PESes ever on the pitch. Hence my hopes for the PC platform. I have no hopes for any patches or updates from the developer. So many forces are in place to keep the game like Speedball2020 online.

    I’m increasingly aghast at the state of Master League though.

  37. nG – I am indeed, but I’m not sure you’re getting my point. I mean that just because it’s a regen of (insert famous player here) doesn’t mean that they’re remotely close to that star player as a regen. Some are awful. They need the long term investment before they’re any good. My problem with Robben is his stamina is shit, and even after 5 seasons it won’t be much better. I have little use for a winger that will need subbing ever game he starts.

    Also something I have been thinking about, does a regen player come back the same as default? I’m talking about training, and to a lesser extent, skills. If I leave his training regime untouched, will he end up being exactly the same player that retired? or, if set him on wildly different training roles, will he end up a completely different player? So the argument could be made that regens come back with a slight element of blank canvas, and that you will never get 100% the same player after 10+ seasons of growth. They’ll be slightly different in the end.

  38. Tommy — I had Robben for 14.5 seasons on PES2019, from age 16 all the way to age 31, and once he hit 19 or so he could play a full match no bother and was great, but when he was 29-ish, that went to 60 minutes or so, and usually he was then used as a sub most of the time.

    Re. the difference in Regens according to Training etc, this would require serious study. You’d probably need to take a snapshot of a player as he starts out in season 2019-20, get him as a Regen, sit down and sim 10 seasons’ worth of matches to find out for sure, constantly stopping to make sure his Training is on the ‘other path’ for science! And also that he’s in the starting XI after injury, suspension etc. You could do it now with RVP’s 2019-20 stats being on PES2020db. I remember Paul and Jay having a barbed discussion about the effects of training last year. My gut says there wouldn’t be much difference, knowing what we know of the way the game is, and how tightly corralled we truly are within relatively narrow borders. Turning RVP into a nippy SB or even AMF ought to be possible, and technically might be (if played enough at the position), but probably wouldn’t be worth it.

  39. I had my best CM ‘poached’ via minimum fee release clause yesterday. The usual cut-scene and opportunity to offer a better contract, which I did, but still he left and the minimum fee was £10m more than his value. He was first choice, fairly high affection, I offered a much improved deal and he still buggered off. I approve of this, makes team building a little more difficult. Of course, all I had to do was look in the youth team or free agents for a decent replacement but this is a good addition to ML.

  40. I fired up my PC installation of PES2019 just now and signed a Youth in October and… drumroll… he was NOT in the squad after being signed. He remained in the Youths, with his info screen saying he would arrive in January. So the past PESes did get it ‘wrong’ indeed. Which I preferred. It seems wrong to be able to raid the Youths to plug any gaps in my Squad. Cook’s experience above notwithstanding, this is the least challenging squad-management and squad-building ML ever. Ever!

    Quick video I made of my PES2019 PC excursion just now. I could not of course resist playing an actual match to see how it felt. (Still felt great.) I only played for 30 mins of a 10-min match, but in that time the AI committed two fouls, giving me the tactical variance that we all of course miss and also penalising the AI for rough stuff. Now taking into account that I’ve got ‘the best dt18 file for fouls’, the two fouls I suffered by the AI before I switched off on 30 mins, would never have been given in PES2020. This so urgently needs to come to PES2020, on any platform. If the fabled October patch comes and fouls like these are still not being given, it’s over.

    Murky grainy look here is because I forgot to bump all the settings up to benefit from my new graphcs card. And I’m not liking that custom turf. Reminiscent of the one from PES5 with the lines all across the pitch.

  41. nG – I think the turf mod is broken, it’s not meant to look like that. I had the same problem once when using the mod via dpFilelist generator method of implementing mods but not sure how to fix it with sider, assuming you’re using the sider. Wonderful reminder of how fouls should work in a PES game though and I just realised I miss the old ML menus.

    Also, Speedball2020 is the perfect description for the tackling model. I have an enforcer at CB who’s sole job is to barge over opposition players from behind, just like the shoulder barge tactic on Speedball 2.

  42. nG – It’s interesting that you mention RVP, because he’s one where his current “shape” is way off what his final “shape” is as a 36yo. His current regen ‘SHT’ point (of the hexagon) is very shallow compared to the 37yo I had at the end of the last season. I could mess with his training regime and put more focus in the striking stats, but I won’t. In recent years I’ve noticed that certain parts of the hexagon can spike independently, so perhaps there’s more “built-in” to each player than meets the eye. The old fashioned PES way. I’m not going to change anything, and see what happens.

    My theory is that while we are given the “power” to shape the course for a player’s stats, the overall path isn’t that far away from if you did nothing, or if he wasn’t on a training regime at all. You can see this in the projected growth curves. You can swap training regimes and the line will change immediately, but after all the peaks and troughs it ends up around the same place. It’s not like the older PES versions where a curve can sometimes rocket away from it’s current course.

  43. A question about Training, do you guys use Balanced, or one of the pre-set roles, or focus training?

    If for example Arcas has the ‘No 10 Hole Player’ training, we can see the arrows next to his stats for which stats will be improved, this varies with the different training roles.

    So if after say 8 weeks I get the in-game message saying Arcas has been training hard and is now competent in paying the no 10 hole player role, what does this actually mean?

    Does it mean that his training period of developing those stats is now complete and finished and his development in the areas affected by that role will now bottom out? Will he keep developing under that role? Do you guys move on a player to a different type of training when you get this message?

    Its all a bit unexplained and muddy.

    And I still stand by the fact that PES20 has more fouls in than PES19 despite a large chunk not being given.

    NG – if you are expecting some kind of fouls fix for October, I think you will be disappointed, Konami’s FB page has already stated as much that they wont be looking to change them.

  44. Paul – I have no idea what it means when they have “accomplished” that training, or what benefit it would be to keep them on it, or change it. A lot of the players come with ready-set regimes, and unless I need someone to improve more in a certain area (usually stamina for attackers, speed for centre-backs) I leave things as is. I tend to look at the growth curves, and check that whatever regime they’re on isn’t going to make them drop below their default “projected” growth. If it looks like it will I’ll change it. I never used balanced.

    Now I’ve thought about it a bit more, I’m convincing myself that a lot of it is bollocks window-dressing. Even if you train a player on regime A for 10 weeks, then regime B for 10 weeks, then C… etc, they’ll probably end up in the same place at 30yo, more or less.

    Robben is a good example of “nothing you do makes that much of a difference”. I’ve got him and a couple of others set on focused training for Strength (which includes stamina). The projected growth line is matching the default growth line almost perfectly, and after six months… nothing. Stamina doesn’t appear to be increasing at a higher rate to the rest of him, and if it is, it’s hardly anything at all.

    I miss the good ol’ days or being able to see what stats are close to a rise, etc.

  45. Paul – about a week ago Adam said on his Twitter, in the context of fouls, that he’s been playing the next patch version in the office and it has ‘a good balance’. Which means whatever it means to him of course, but it’s potential movement on the issue at least.

  46. Tommy – I Suspect you’re right, my debate with Jay last year was that training has little to any impact on overall growth, its all pre-determined and set by their development curve, yet Jay insisted he was able to pinpoint stats and train a player just in those areas, which I have never seen any evidence of in any of the ‘NuPES’ games.

    NG – Since when have you paid any attention to anything Adam says, ever ?
    Thew same guy that said transfers were fixed last year, then released photoshopped screens showing the ‘fix’, only for the game to be released and the transfers still to be broken, or the same guy that openly stated that ‘ML is a breath of fresh air’ last year, when there was zero change, or the same guy that said ‘ML has been revamped’ this year and player interactions will be key to driving your own unique ML narrative – what interactions?!!?
    Or the same guy that said as a ML fan himself there was a 3year ‘Grand Plan’ and that fans would be happy with what they achieve, only for us, 2 years into this plan, to have a more broken, hollow ML than ever previously?

    You know as well as I do that its just PR fluff, saying something on social media because he knows what a big issue it is amongst fans, the patch will come, there will be no change at all, some on the forums will be placebo’d up to the eyeballs, time will pass and he’ll hope it all just gets forgotten.

    Guarantee it.

  47. I agree with Paul as it was more of a case that the Youth System made no sense in the past. It used to be the case in previous titles that you had to wait till the next transfer window. I did used to secretly wonder why, if they are my Youth Team players. I should be able to sign them when I want. Really though the Youth set-up in PES is crap. There are way too many players as more and more keep getting added each window. Fifa’s isn’t perfect but at least you get a sense of building your Youth squad up. In PES there is no thought that goes into it whatsoever.

  48. Paul – I got the PC version and a new GPU to go with it for a reason…

    Fouls are essential to a football game. We all see what the lack of them produces Speedball-wise…

    The PC is the great hope.

  49. Back to PES5 after work. A 5-0 win vs ‘Boro in the cup (including a penalty and a red card) followed by a 1-0 defeat away to Man Utd. Maradona picked up an injury. Propper PES.

  50. As a former PES player, who got lost in FIFAland for 4 years, I’ve come back this year, and in my second crack at ML. I took the tip for PESUniverse OF’s. I’ve loved every minute, I’m not as accomplished as you guys so stuck on Professional currently, but enjoying the first season. I’ve noted about 4-8 fouls per game (mostly me) and a propensity for the Ai to shove you off the ball unless you’re shielding like crazy. They tend to try to hit the big man up top or play a 3 man attack down the wing, so can’t say I’ve seen much attacking verve from the Ai as yet. All free kicks unless I respond correctly go in. In terms of signing players, its been nigh on impossible for me. my salary is reduced me to mid 60 rated players at best, not sure if I’m doing it wrong, but I’ve had to grow my own so to speak and enlist from youth almost entirely aside from a keeper called Samassa whose calamitous and a CB called Robson Bambu or something similar whose pretty handy due to his beastiliness. Maybe when I go up to Top Player and beyond I’ll get nailed like everyone else?

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