Where was Jim

Snowmageddon in parts of the UK meant I had to work extra over the weekend and the start of the week, wiping out much of my free gaming time.

So since last week I have only managed to play 3 matches in my Master League on PES2018.

I lost all 3 matches.

I can’t account for what happened. The matches were not all in one session, otherwise I would put it down to simple session variance – that old, old feature of PES that is so strangely overlooked in much of the to-and-fro debate about the series.

I lost all 3 quite badly, too.

I took the lead in one, and was pegged back to lose it 1-2. Then I lost 0-1. Then I lost 0-3. All against ‘lesser’ opposition, which admittedly doesn’t mean much in nuPES, but it’s still embarrassing.

The mini-run of doom plunged me down to the wrong end of the table:

It’s only November in my Season 5, and it’s only 9 matches into a long old season, so I am not worried at all at the moment. I still have more or less the same calibre of squad that finished mid-table last season. I’ll do the same again this season, I am confident. (Famous last words.)

Master League was always about incremental growth and struggle, so this is very welcome evidence of the old spirit still prevailing.

But I still want things to change. I want to get up there and win the league at the very least, and for this to happen within two more seasons. That’s my target.

So, this season will be about more, er, consolidation, or whatever football fans like to call it.

Next season, Season 6, I want to be my top-six season – i.e. that first season where you mount a vague sort of challenge, but still fall well short.

Season 7 will be my first serious tilt at the title. The couple of seasons after that will see me trying for the elusive Treble.

Such is my long-term plan here. All of which should easily see me through to the end of January. Which isn’t too far away, remember. (And then not long after: ‘PES2019: The King Is Back!’)

This week I’m expecting delivery of a new PC that might take up quite a bit of time that I would otherwise have spent on PES2018. If it wasn’t for the snow, I might already have it, but as things stand it is due for delivery Thursday.

A big part of the reason for getting the PC is being able to play PES2018 modded. I particularly mean modded gameplay – all the cosmetic mods (pitches, stadia, camera angles et al) are nice, but they are not my primary interest. Not even my secondary interest, to be honest.

I still have yet to see any actual evidence that any gameplay mods exist for the PC version of PES2018. There are plenty of Option File-type fiddlings with team styles and the like, but these could barely be called gameplay changes – and are often very subjective, to put it politely. I remain convinced that all those switches and levers we’re given to play with are mostly placebo buttons.

In the PC version of PES2018, core gameplay remains untouched by modders from what I can tell. If you post a link in the comments to an alleged ‘gameplay mod’, there’s a better-than-evens chance it’ll be a mass-Edit of tactics. These don’t change the core gameplay. The same urgent basketball-style back-and-forth rhythm that is so characteristic of nuPES is still very much intact.

But I’m not too far away from being able to run the rule over them for myself. PES2018 will continue on the PS4, of course, while I play with my new toy mostly in private. It’ll be early spring before any move to the PC version takes place.

Updated: 12th December 2017 — 10:00

46 Comments

  1. Aaarrgh! I was sure you would go Beglin in today’s title.

  2. So my experience opens with a 0-0 draw between Belgium and Sunderland. Very few chances, I hit the bar but little else. Two fouls committed by me, both deemed yellows. I deliberately chose to face a div two ml type team to see how they’d play and it was pretty much ten men behind the ball. Feels an improvement on 2017 but I don’t know how much.

  3. No snow down here in good ol’ Sussex by the Sea.

    Not much PES either as I now find myself just playing a match or two at the weekend. My last session saw me scrape a 1-0 win at home to Sheffield Wednesday followed by a 6-3 win away to Millwall. Yes, one of those matches which has you switching off afterwards having to convince yourself that it was one of those enjoyable freak results. Only you really know it’s what PES does now.

    Good luck with the PC n-G. Sounds like my worst nightmare as I have no patience and even less time for technical tinkering.

  4. Chris99 – there was no organic method of shoe-horning him or Jim Morrison into it, so I went with there being no Jim instead. And that brings the great PES2009 soundtrack song-themed post title quadrilogy of December 2017 to an end.

    Uncle Turf – everything I hear about Legend and Challenge indicates that will be the high-point. I know you’re still on Superstar while you look for the 5 wins to unlock Legend, so enjoy them.

    Shed – I think the PC will arrive tomorrow now, and I am looking forward to it. There’s nothing like moving into a new computer. Setting everything up, getting the necessary programs (I will never call them apps), and just generally having a right old tinker. I haven’t had a PC for 12 years either, so this is very exciting for me. I’m not even bothered about how PES2018 plays on it. Anything I can get from modding will be a bonus. I’m still enjoying my time with the game on PS4 more than I’m not.

  5. Always exciting times, a new pc. When pes goes tits up you should get into the elder scrolls (whichever one you fancy) / fallout modding scene. Now THOSE games have tangible, real mods with observable gameplay optimizations, and then some.

    I’ve only found one patch that seems to do something for PES 18’s gameplay, “Parham V2”. I will be thoroughly testing this as soon as I hit the midway point of the first season.

  6. No snow here either.

    I had hoped to get the game I’m working on into the Google Play store by Christmas, but I have been defeated by using a new framework and only spending lunchtimes on it. Maths nerds are going to have to wait a while longer for their gaming fix.

  7. Maths nerds? Game? Any details? Grendel goes prime?

    Not so much “snow” as ice crystals, a covering of powder and ball aching temperatures. The car windscreen had to be scraped from the inside.

    Second pes game ended 0-0 between juventus and malmo. Hit the post but not much else. Started some editing.

  8. Started up season 4 for my Premiership and Europa League push. Buoyed by Marcus Rashford finally scoring a couple of goals in the Charity shield and starting to look like the player he should be. First game up Leicester and I’m 1-0 up towards the end of the game and Rashford wins a free kick of all things on the edge of the area. Goes off for treatment, sub comes on scores freekick. Game ends. Rashford out injured for two months……..Missing most of Europa group stage I would have thought. Kinda like it as injuries so rare now but it’s a kick in the nuts. Emergency loan deals ahoy

  9. Keith your progression through Master League sounds like mine, it’s good fun in the early seasons.

    I’m disappointed by the finances in late game ML. I have a few of the highest paid players but still plenty of cash to play with. I was hoping the game would be tougher on budget this year but this is still a nuPES Master League set up and Challenge Mode hasn’t changed this. Only once I’ve had a player taken because of the release clause, transfers in have been easy and renewing contracts not a problem. The time I missed a Chairman target I was forgiven too. I’m going to jump ship to the Brazilian League at the end of the season to sample some of the licensed stadia and use lower rated players. Maybe give Legendary a try in the league games until the end of the season.

  10. Cook – Yeah, its definitely been enjoyable for me so far. It’s not been without its annoyances obviously. Most notably for me when I was falsely challenge mode sacked.

    If I do ever manage to win the Prem and Champions League etc. then my plan is to try and orchestrate a move back to Coventry and up the difficulty to Legend.

    Your Brazilian idea is great, the Vasco De Gama stadium is amazing. I find it frustrating that those stadiums are all locked to certain teams whereas the European licensed ones can be used for anyone.

  11. Keith – luckily PC has a mod for that. Those stadiums really are a sight to behold . Strange decision from Konami to lock them.

  12. I’ve already been thinking that as with my recent 2015 rehash I will not be starting my legend challenge in English div two. Some far flung dog and duck league with a minimal number of fixtures will help me bed in.

  13. Turf – It generates 3×3 maths cryptograms for the player to solve. For example it just spat out

    ABC – DEC = FBE
          ÷         +         –
      BC + DGH = BEI
         =         =         =
      BA +  BGI = HDH

    except with colours instead of letters.

  14. I suspect the fact I had to google ‘cryptogram’ means I’m unlikely to be successful.

    Radio times Christmas crossword is hard enough.

  15. That’s gonna fly off the festive shelves that Chris 😉

  16. Coincidentally, my third season with the Iron (coined “the season of hope”, rather cheesily) turned out to be nothing short of a disaster. I started brightly, with four wins, two draws, and a loss, but everything went to pot after that. I finished with eight wins, sixteen draws, and twenty-two losses to finish 17th in the Championship.

    And I still love it. I haven’t taken this long to get out of the Championship since PES 2014, but right now every victory is like gold dust; it makes you appreciate a run of wins much more. Getting into the Prem will be like winning Europe in PES games gone by.

    Usually, I play ten seasons (which takes me to March or April in most cases, but this year will take a little longer due to hardware failure) but I’m actually beginning to believe I might eke out twelve or thirteen in PES 2018. Who knows, I might even be still playing come next September, something unheard of in recent times.

  17. Paul – I’m working on the theory that not all smart phone owners are teenager girls obsessed with snapchat. I got the idea from https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.aschulz.cryptogram&hl=en_GB which has had over 50,000 installs but only contains ten puzzles and hasn’t been updated for 5 years.

  18. I smell a World War Two telegraph crossword type plant – those who download the app receive an invitation to assist her majesty’s services in a prefab just outside Luton.

    I’m afraid I’d just spend my time debating whether we all see the same colours and how we can know if they are even there. Good luck though chris99, what you’re doing is way beyond my understanding.

    Tempted to start the ml tonight while listening to Newcastle lose to another former manager. It would have to be superstar though unless I start scoring in a few exhibitions.

  19. Fair Play Chris99 – Anyone that designs and app and brings it to market deserves admiration.
    Just started a Python Coding course, Apples XCode is based on python, so might even have a dabble myself sometime.

    maybe an app for girls that turns any selfie into an animated poo emoji and posts it to all major social media sites, i’ll call it crapchat .

  20. Turf – Don’t ever start playing around on http://www.rehue.net/ then. I’ve spent many days at work designing appropriate colour palettes for colour blind users.

  21. Since my super soaraway days on the Spectrum, programming simple Snake-type games in BASIC and simple Breakout-type games in Assembly, I’ve often tried to refloat the Coding boat, but only ever got so far before stopping. I think it’s because I always try to follow a formal training course, which covers lots of things I already know about – variables, conditional loops, subroutines, etc. – and that robs me of motivation. But thinking back to when I learned BASIC and some Assembly, I never followed no course. I just found how to do what I wanted to do through fiddling and experimentation, and the knowledge accumulated organically over time… I think this is the best way for coding newcomers (or returners) to learn.

    Uncle Turf – I’ve picked Newcastle to win in my Premier League acca, so I hope not. I think the stars align for a Newcastle victory.

    Keith/Cook – I’m pretty much already there in my ML too. With me it’s a dual awareness that what it is is pretty darn good, but it isn’t the PES it should be. I can’t and won’t adapt to nuPES as the new standard.

    The PC is due to arrive tomorrow – the original date of delivery. I won’t even unbox it until Friday. After that, nerdvana….

  22. “I never followed no course”…? I really hope that’s an attempt to be down with the kids than a highly non-chronicles like mangling of the English language!

    Letters to the times please.

  23. Uncle Turf – it’s ironic deliberate usage of down-with-the-kids language, not a jamming on of a baseball cap backwards and an embarrassing paunchy pose. There’s also an ironic usage of a PES buzzword in there too.

  24. Yes, the italics gave that one away.

    Sadly Newcastle was all too predictable, they’re a good championship side who haven’t brought in anyone of premier league quality. Not one player in any position is good enough to be a top flight regular, Everton have simply had good players playing badly. This looks like the year that a number of teams are in that position. The premier league is not a great league, it has a handful of very good teams, Man City miles apart from anyone else and a bunch of mediocrity, Newcastle are the worst of them.

    Played a few more exhibitions, think I will rack up a lot more than I usually would as I reckon this is definitely the hardest modern pes I’ve played. The opportunity to get behind defences seems non existent and teams park the bus early. It’s worsened by the complete lack of differences between players – Argentina v Burkina Faso – Messi couldnt outpace any of the opposition, Brazil v Mali – same story, identikit players with meaningless stats. I’m really hoping master league will produce a few variations. Also noticeable are the 9 free kicks awarded in four matches. Every single one of them earned a booking, is this just an odd stat or did the patch screw this up? It’s nice to be in on the activity but if it wasn’t for Paul’s generosity I’m not sure I’d be happy yet having spent forty quid.

  25. I honestly think this season (7) will be my last on PES 2018, in fact I may even struggle to finish the season. The game is extremely poor.

    its got to a saturation point where I cant even forgive the many many flaws, in favour of decent game play, because there isn’t much decent game play.

    from commentary being so poor an annoying and stating things that aren’t even happening in the game I’m playing ( and no commentary is not an option), to the abysmal AI and game mechanics, throw in the appalling attempt at a ML mode and it all just crumbles away.

    If anyone thinks this is the AI we needed in a PES game, they quite obviously have never watched professional football.
    I liken PES AI to table football, as that’s how the players move, the defence and midfield all move up and down in straight lines, always keeping there exact shape and never deviate, this makes it virtually impossible to get in behind a COM defence, they pack the penalty box out every single match, every team, its like Mourinho worked on the dev team.
    It all makes for a completely unrealistic, tedious experience where every match plays the exact same.
    Throw into that the still existing distinct lack of any sensible referee logic, lack of fouls and the fact that stats are meaningless, evident by the fact that on SS level, my CF Embolo, rated 87, is constantly shoved off the ball when his strength stat is 87, outpaced when his speed and explosive power stats are in the high 80s, the ‘AI’ isn’t intelligent, it just handicaps the player and boosts the COM teams stats in order to effect a higher difficulty level.

    Teams play way way beyond their means because of this, a QPR side rated 65 on Regular, is a QPR side rated around 85 on SS, its abysmal.

    Add in the actual ML mode itself lacking any innovation or depth or immersion, where i get messages telling me my player who has only made 1 sub appearance in the last 30 games, has been given a really obscure unfathomable nickname by the fans because they expect him to create a goal every time he plays such is his creativity, and therefore his rising star status has risen to level 2 – despite him making one sub appearance in 6 months!

    Finally, the cheating, games where the COM just takes away any control input from you for no reason, where you hit the post with an 87 rated forward from standing on the goal line, where blatant penalties are not given, where G Hobbs from some lowly championship side, can backheel pass a ball 30 yards and the equally obscure CF can suddenly van basten it into the net from 30 yards …..

    Its a complete crap fest. This isn’t me just ranting, all of what I’ve said is actual fact, it all happens in the game, over and over again, I have proof, can supply proof, there’s proof videos all over the internet, if people choose to enjoy this type of lazy effort from Konami, that’s their choice, they obviously have low levels of expectation, but i’m pretty much done with PES.

    Will get this season out of the way, then move on. Certainly not buying a £700 PC to play it looking different.

  26. This isn’t a provocative post but what’s Fifa like this year?

    I’m not in the market for it as I’ve got to give my shiny new 2018 a go but my last serious effort (Fifa 14) did feel like there were very varied approaches – it was just the rank scripting of higher levels vs the ease of lower ones that did for me.

    I’m giving up on a few games that I never play and am considering a more recent Madden. One game per night would see a season over quickly so it can happily fit with an ML.

  27. Paul – I’m surprised you lasted this long given how you’ve had the same issues as me in regards to ML, commentary and presentation. I have less issues with the AI but that’s possibly because I play so infrequently now. I’ll also not be upgrading or investing in anything to keep playing PES – nu or retro.

    So what next, Fifa 18?

  28. No idea what FIFA 18 is like Turf, its been sat in its shiny cellophane wrapper in the drawer ever since release day as I’ve been solely playing PES, but once this season is over, I will be dismissing PES 18, having never competed for any trophies for the first time in years, due to the shambolic nature of the game, and AI.

    FIFA will be next, either take Liverpool and reinstate their crown at the top of the european footballing tree, or take a League One MK Dons side to Champions League glory, haven’t decided yet, but I’m looking forward to something new and fresh.

    My 4 seasons as Liverpool on FIFA 17, were 4 of the best seasons I’ve played in any game, every game was different, i felt immersed in the game world, the licensed stadiums for every team, great commentary, realistic signings ….
    PES can win all these game of the year awards, but its irrelevant, they are only voted for by ass kissing games buddy journos who just want to keep their perks with Konami going.
    FIFA 17 was light years ahead of PES 17, in presentation, modes, AI, expect the same to be evident this year.

  29. Sounds worth following your experience.

    In the spirit of game giving away if anyone wants the old school beer mat I currently have next to where my PS3 used to be – Civilization II PS1 disc – shout out. I can’t be bothered to ebay it but it remains a classic of the type. I’ve also got that Marvel Ultimate Alliance thing for the PS3 that I can’t swap as there’s no cover insert. I only ever miss Shadow of Rome from the old days. Truly the best game ever made.

  30. Got the day off today which has been pleasant so far. First up I listened to the back end of the cricket with a sausage butty. After dropping the little one off at school I did a bit of housework. After that was out of the way I watched a comedy dama about the making of Dad’s Army. Next I will read a bit of a book I have just had delivered. It is the story of North End’s 1986/87 season, where the late John McGrath took over management of the club, following them applying for re-election the previous year. It is an amazing story as the club was on the verge of going bust. He put the entire squad on the transfer market and built a team of characters, has-beens and journeymen. The club finished second that season and a sleeping giant was awoken. It is a Master League story of its own. Later this afternoon I am off to watch the school nativity play.

  31. Darryl – 86-87 season was the year I started really enjoying football. It started my love affair with league tables. Scouring the papers as an 8 year old looking at the non league tables odd sounding team names, Sutton, Dorchester, Enfield(which I thought was a mythological creature back then).
    I remember Northampton winning Div 4 and Preston 2nd.

    Cool strip that year too.

  32. Darryl – 86-87 season was the year I started really enjoying football. It started my love affair with league tables. Scouring the papers as an 8 year old looking at the non league tables odd sounding team names, Sutton, Dorchester, Enfield(which I thought was a mythological creature back then).
    I remember Northampton winning Div 4 and Preston 2nd.

    Cool strip that year too.

  33. Darryl – Sounds like a nice, chilled day off. I’m currently pretending to work while waiting for midi-Shed to get home from school for a mad rush to the cinema to see The Last Jedi. *EXCITED!*

    Paul – Maybe roll back to FIFA 17 then. I’ve been tempted myself as it’s only £4 in CEX. I’ll never buy a new FIFA (and possibly not PES anymore) since I have no interest of playing online. I asked a FIFA-playing friend the other day what he thought of playing FIFA 17 over 18 and he told me that there was no point playing 17 now as there’s no one playing it online anymore. That was the end of that conversation!

  34. Paul – I can’t really disagree with much of your viewpoint, which is why I’ve got the PC on the way, in the hope PES2018 can be made different. I mainly just wanted a PC of course, so it’s not all on PES. For the record I think this AI is the kind we need in a football game. No it’s not realistic, bit a good football game AI needs to be tough, verging on impossible.

    And the PC has arrived! Going to unbox it before I head out for work, might post some pics and first impressions here later tonight if there’s time.

    In what I swear is a totally unrelated note, there might not be a new post tomorrow as something has come up for the morning, which is when the post was going to be written. Will see though. Might just get a goal replay up, I have a few on the backburner.

    Shed – FIFA17 is £4 in my local CeX too, amazing really. I was unimpressed with its demo though, and for me my FIFA days are all but over. ‘Never say never’ is a wise saying though.

  35. Right, I’ve unlocked legend.

    But I’m not sure I’ll be using it. I only managed four draws, won on penalties, and a fiddled win (losing 1-0 I swapped teams in the last minute, et voila as they say). It’s so tough on superstar I don’t see a way of avoiding a year one sacking, unless it doesn’t game over and you simply move teams? I’ve made the pes united league into a rough and ready Scottish division and will probably cut it down to 14 for my foray.

  36. There are more FIFA customised gameplay patches than pes on PC, the only issue with FIFA is that it is FIFA.

  37. Uncle Turf – well done, worth fiddling to get it done as you could have taken so long with Superstar that the motivation might have been strangled at birth. Now the Purity fun begins…

    Jamiey – agreed, in recent years FIFA has trailblazed the flowing individuality-lite path that PES is following. Except PES seems to be doing it badly, fully satisfying neither the old-school PESheads nor those FIFAheads who might want an alternative (if there are any such people).

  38. quick update on the PC side of things. I’m not playing much – 5 matches in in my Liverpool ML and just passed the august transfer window. Brought in Filtaozinho and Wroughllen from the youth team and that’s about it. Contemplated starting as Ajax in the Eredivisie, played a few matches there but the absence of a D2 makes it a no-go. I will switch later as I did last year, if the game lasts that long.

    So, the tactics change then by patch maker Kilay. They seem to have made matches a bit more compact but to be honest I am not noticing much else, SO far. Of course it is still very early doors…but on the whole I am not very impressed with what I’ve seen so far. Matches tend to be trance-like and muddy, as PES 17 could be at the worst of times. I am getting at least 1-2 fouls per match though, so far. Which is still poor by any standards but not as low as some of you have reported.

    When I reach the midway point I will install the “Parham V2 Gameplay Patch” that the good folks over at Evoweb are lyrical about and see whether that makes any tangible difference…but so far I would rate the experience a 6 / 10. So, back to Fallout 4 for me for now and the going will be slow if the “PES feeling” does not pick up. I want a good, solid footy game though…if FIFA is 50% off in the PS store again as it was last year, I just might pick it up again as a backup.

  39. #1 – I’m not far off being able to try it all out for myself of course. The big brown box arrived just before I left for work today and I had time to open it and check everything was inside. It was! I had time to see that the case is one of those with a see-through side, and there are two sliding buttons on the top of the case that are unmarked. And then I had to go. Setup tomorrow. Day off work.

    Your findings re. the modding scene do not surprise me at all. It’s a double-bind we’re in when faced with trying to agitate for a PES with old-school values when even most of the PES fandom has gone over to the fun-first faction. I’ll say again that I’m not against fun, but I am against the idea that fun must entail the kind of fast blurry always-moving run-and-gun action that we’ve seen in the series since at least PES2016, and arguably since PES2013.

    Luckily I got the PC for me first, and for PES second. If it saves nuPES from itself, great. If it doesn’t, I’ll amuse myself for the next few years mining the old PES games for gold. PES2013 really has got a superb fan-made patch on PC (Jenkey’s) that’s worth looking into.

  40. Season 2 of my PES2011 PSP ML – mustn’t buy or sell players – and after an unexpected promotion in S1, we managed to avoid relegation early on – which was my primary goal for the season – and ended up fighting for a place in the European competitions (though my domestic league is already a CL/EL + south american teams mix). There were two matches left in the season, one point distance from the last qualifying spot…needless to say, we choked: lost both and ended up 11th place out of 18 teams. It’s a PSP Master League classic: the game becomes more difficult in the last third of the season, not in an “cheating AI” kind of way where everything goes their way throughout the match, but the opponent plays much more agressively both in offense and defense, forcing you to decrease the number of bad decisions you make per match.

    Season 3 is up and running and my goal now is to improve on our last year’s record of 12 wins and 12 defeats – 44 goals scored and 44 conceded, kings of the zero sum game! Right now I’m in the January transfer window and we’re once again very balanced (5W 5L, I think). If the current trend continues, we’ll concede more than last season but also score more.

    Financially we’re barely holding on. Last season had to loan out a player to keep the boat floating and this season had to release my 3rd goalkeeper – first player in three seasons to jump off the ship; no big deal since he didn’t play a single minute with us. By the end of this season we’re bound to sail into trouble unless we qualify for European football…anyways, we still have 29 players on the roster to get us glory.

    As for the future of PC PES, I wouldn’t get my hopes up. Only 2% of PES2018 sales came from the PC version, even the PS3 had more (8%). If KONAMI comes up with anything truly groundbreaking in the future of the series – which is already unlikely – I see the PC version left behind once again.

    Just watched a FIFA18 Real Madrid vs Barcelona and once again it’s all makeup trying to disguise what a vapid, tasteless game it is; but at least it provides value with all the stadiums and realistic presentation. I wouldn’t care if PES got back to the Roberto Larcos’ and PES Uniteds and playing in Dietro Monte Stadium, as long as the gameplay is truly good…makeup does little for my football libido.

    Right now, either way you look the only thing you’re getting is Hocker (hockey + soccer). And I don’t think it’s changing in the nearest future.

  41. NG – happy tinkering away I would say. I’ve “built” a PC twice in my life now, always a good feeling to have nice and new shiny hardware. Especially for me since I used to be big on Bethesda games (well I still am to be honest) and the modding community there is immense. Morrowind is ancient now but there’s still mods being churned out for it of astounding quality.

    Pes 2013 has my eye as well btw. I would love to try that Jenkey patch, it was an awesome game to begin with if not for the insane growth curves. Lots of patches are still being churned out for that game as well over on pes patch.

  42. I’ll be turning off that LED as soon as I figure out how to.

    I’m very impressed so far but I’m barely past setup stage.

  43. It does amuse me when people say ‘But its Fifa’ – yep it is, and beats PES in pretty much every aspect.

    Modes – FIFA is far superior, with its FUT online mode, pro clubs, Journey story mode, career mode
    Presentation – not even worth discussing, a spectrum 48k would beat PES
    Game Play – one game gives you tedious rigid AI, thats unrealistic, in a host of unrealistic stadiums, and very few at that, missing trophies, team tactics that resemble table football, heavily scripted, not balanced, with shots that are all extremely similar.

    The other gives you an immersive match day experience, in hundreds of real detailed stadiums, with engaging realistic commentary, every team plays differently, the career mode is rich and feature deep, there are lots of variations on shots, bobbles, drives, laces, curlers, trophies are abundant and actually show when you win them.

    the ‘FIFA is FIFA’ comment is pathetic.

  44. Paul – I only partly agree. The implied critique that FIFA is always trivial just because it’s got the FIFA name on it is foolish, yes, just as foolish as the automatic fanboyish love if PES just because it’s called PES. But there is an emptiness in FIFA, call it a subjective quality if you must, but I mean that feeling after a few matches that you’re not bothered whether you play another few or not. It arises from a lack of player individuality and a requirement for constant flow and playability – something that PES has sought to replicate in recent years with borderline-disastrous results for the PES franchise. The surrounding hoopla of stadia and pitches and commentators is so much a side-issue for me that I don’t take it into account. On a pure gameplay basis, old-school PES (pre-PES2013) beats all current PES and FIFA hands-down. (And I’d take the gameplay values on show in FIFA08 before FIFA18.) It’s not even a contest. All that said, FIFA17 is the ridiculous price of 4 quid in my local CeX at the moment so it looks as if I will be picking one up. It’s be rude not to.

  45. But there is an emptiness in FIFA, call it a subjective quality if you must, but I mean that feeling after a few matches that you’re not bothered whether you play another few or not.

    This purely must be down to your pre-judgement that your not going to enjoy FIFA, so have that not bothered mindset before you even play, as its so far from the truth to be laughable.

    I can’t see what ’emptiness’ youy mean when every game feels different, each team plays differently, players are no less individual than PES, you have a deeply rich football ‘world’ that you play in where commentary is meaningful, the match dfay atmosphere is superb, stadiums, presentation elements, actually make it feel like a real match ….. i could go on, but theres no point trying to persuade a pre-judged FIFA nay-sayer.

    Compare it to what PES gives you and i cant see how anyone would relish ‘one more game’ of PES considering it give you f*** all and zero reward.
    Great….. slog it out for 40 matches to win the league….. what do you get? a quick team photo on the pitch and a blank space where a trophy should be. well worth it.

  46. Paul – no question that FIFA can go toe-to-toe with post-PES2015 PES and come up trumps in many areas, perhaps most areas, perhaps arguably more areas… But I’m comparing modern-day PES and modern-day FIFA – both empty-feeling, to me, for the most part – to the vanished greatness of old-school PES. Nothing in either PES or FIFA of today can ever hold a candle to pre-PES2013 PES, or pre-PS3 PES if you want to point at some of the PS3’s duff editions. I don’t care how wonderful and immersive the packaging or fun of either nuPES or FIFA ever gets, that’s my bottom line and I’m not shifting from it. I totally stand by this, 100%:

    But there is an emptiness in FIFA, call it a subjective quality if you must, but I mean that feeling after a few matches that you’re not bothered whether you play another few or not.

    With the addition of:

    But there is an emptiness in FIFA and in PES since 2013 or so, call it a subjective quality if you must, but I mean that feeling after a few matches that you’re not bothered whether you play another few or not.

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