Extra Time

There has been an interesting development. I’ve started playing… well, you’ll see what I’ve started playing.

Before getting to that, I persevered with my attempt to play FIFA15 again after a gap of several months and several hundred matches of PES2015.

I stand by my initial judgement that FIFA15 is a great game and one of the best football games ever made, but in a by-now-familiar story (that seems to happen every year), I can’t play it now.

It was going quite well. I scored this long-range beauty at the start of Season 7 of my Career Mode career:

(Note how Alan Smith in commentary refers to the ball flying into the ‘top-left’ corner of the net, when in fact it screams into the top-right corner of the net. A silly basic error that’s been in PES commentary for years, and persists in FIFA too.)

PES scholars have long disputed the merits of scoring long-range goals in FIFA, but the nay-sayers are, frankly, just plain wrong. It’s not 1999 anymore. Nowadays FIFA long-rangers are rare enough to be deeply satisfying.

There are different kinds of goals, too, and random moments like the following. Already 0-3 down to Chelsea, I plugged away looking for a consolation, and got it via a peculiar looping deflection – watch for a very realistic crowd reaction behind the goal during the replay:

Two good moments among many such moments.

But they don’t count, on the greater scale of things. FIFA is over for another year.

The problem with me and FIFA is that I’ve spent most of the past year conditioning myself to play PES, to the point where I automatically, instinctually, emotionally associate good football gaming with PES football gaming. This is a trend that’s been going on now for, oh, about 20 years, give or take.

This year as every year, FIFA’s time has passed. Its primetime was last September-November, with a brief flare-up in December. When I get to my end-of-year overview of the game, that primetime is the period I’ll be overviewing. It seems to me that FIFA15 was a much better game before the updates and patches started arriving.

Which all left me somewhat high and dry for a football game to play now, in these long, dead weeks before PES2016.

What would I do? PES5? PES2013? PES2010? What?

Well. In something of a PES Chronicles first, I have resumed playing….

pes-2015-logo

Yes.

The game that I thought was done and dusted some weeks ago.

The game that I ardently desired never to play again.

The game that I reached the point of exhaustion with, and ploughed on past it.

The disc was still in the PS4. That’s what did it. It was so easy just to start the game up. I had time yesterday afternoon before going to work and thought, why not?

I found a backup save that I’d made just before the end of my final Season 14 (as I thought at the time).

At that stage I was in the second leg of the semi-final of the Champions League, with a 4-0 aggregate lead form the first leg.

I knocked the difficulty down to Top Player, mindful of the slog that the game had become on Superstar, and jumped straight into that second leg.

Perhaps predictably, I absolutely loved it. Especially when this happened:

I know, I know. Peter Crouch as the floated through-ball specialist. Robben tucking it away with his weaker foot. (So what? And anyway, where did all the purists come from who snipe against things like that? What are their voices doing in my head? Why do I pay them any heed at all?)

Doesn’t matter. Played PES, felt great.

That felt good enough. Loved the feel of the passing, the shooting, the  pace of the game, the general ebb and flow of gameplay. PES2015, I needed reminding, is a GOOD game.

So I was already happy, and then this happened. This is the best I’ve seen from my PES2015 Stevie G in a long while – I loved the delicate little touch with the right knee to tee up the shot – BOOM:

That’s the explosive, joyful power of PES, right there. The ineffable something that FIFA still lacks.

This match was a bit of a cakewalk in the end. There were more goals and it ended something like 8-1 on aggregate.

I put the difficulty back up to Superstar and played a dour-by-comparison 0-0 league match, and reminded myself of how I reached the point of exhaustion with this game a while back.

So I’m thinking of playing on Top Player with zero-bar passing assistance, and seeng how I get on.

Poor old FIFA. It’s great, but its best-ever edition can’t compete even with this flawed edition of PES.

Am I brainwashed? Absolutely. Am I going to put myself through any kind of un-brainwashing, deconditioning process? Nope.

Will this last? Will I be playing PES2015 by Tuesday?

There’s a very good chance I will. I have other games to play, and I’m playing them, so PES2015 will likely just be a session here and there every other day or so. This feels like a good way to await PES2016.

Or is it possible I could squeeze in Season 15 before the middle of September?

48 Comments

  1. very nice hit by Barton there not-Greg, would agree that long rangers on FIFA are pretty satisfying these days. And there seems to be a more explosive nature to the shooting on FIFA16 closed beta so far, although of course that may not make the final cut. Anyway, just off out to buy my new goalie gloves for the new season!!

  2. NG – Zero bar all the way.

  3. NG – I know exactly what you mean as am having a similar experience with Fifa 15 as I just can’t re-connect with it right now. Do you not find it easier to pick PES back up as I do.

    Fifa for me is a fussy game and reminds me of bowlers in cricket who need to play all the time and are rhythm bowlers. Any disruption and the game does not like this. First time round I loved the game and was having a great time. This time I can’t feel it but at the same time still believe it to be a great game.

    My advice would be to echo what NG has said before and if you get Fifa on day one then you must stick with it, no matter what as the Fifa experience needs these conditions.

    I am now starting to think how I could raise the foul count in PES 2015 as this is the one thing holding it back from being a classic. Crossing by CPU is easy to solve with a few editing tweaks of team tactics that take no more than half an hour. More  variables with fouling as it may take some editing of defence aggression and individual player aggression.

  4. Darryl – I forgot to add team tactics tweak to my PES 2016 list. Thanks Frater

  5. worst comment of the week on the FIFA16 closed beta forums has been some fellow noting that the gameplay was much ‘heavier’. This was apparently a bad thing but fortunately after fiddling around with the sliders he managed to fix it

  6. abbeyhill — I loved that Barton goal and the looping own-goal too, and if that’s the worst comment on the closed Beta forums there’s hope yet. I imagine there’s plenty worse though and I also imagine that they’re the voices being listened to.

    Darryl — it was wonderful to play PES2015 again after several days of FIFA15. It really felt good and I recommend you try it just to experience what it’s like (shame you deleted your ML). I can’t cope with the FIFA15 AI’s wriggly-twisty-turniness. It’s just like PES2015’s AI’s dribble-in-from-the-wing thing, except everywhere and all the time. I doubt there’s any way to introduce more fouls to PES2015 by way of tactics settings but if you get results, by all means share.

    Lloyd — I played a few on 0-bar, which was OK but hard work at time. It lowered the possession ratio to 50/50. I went to 1-bar and that’s a decent halfway house for the moment. I played most of PES2015 on 2-bar.

  7. Played several games of the the PES 2016 demo this week. I haven’t played 2015 at all, but I felt the passing is a bit too ‘magnetic’ after playing FIFA. Too locked on and too much zip. I knocked it down to manual for a half and felt challenging but good. What do you guys think about passing on the demo?

    Lovely goals by the way ng.

  8. n-G – It’s seeing goals like that that make me want to play FIFA 15 but the memory of just how dire defending against the AI and the constant fiddle to find the right difficulty soon pulls me up short of buying it again.

    On PES, I don’t doubt how good it must feel to slip back into that comfy old routine. I plan to start PES 2016 on Top Player, just because I don’t think I can go through another torrid tussle like Super Star delivered this year. But the worry is it might be a bit one-sided.

    Manual passing would seem to be a good leveller, especially as 1-bar (on the demo) seems a lot more assisted this time unless it’s changed for the full 2016 release .

  9. Absolutely Loved that replay of the looping goal where the Cov fans start to stand uo in anticipation of the ball going in, and raising there arms when it does, this is the sort of stuff that EA Nail, that PES just fails miserably at.
    for a start the replays in PES are horrendous. Ultra Slow-mo affairs with weird obtrusive camera angles. horrible.

    Ive played a lot of the PES 16 demo and stick with passing at Level 1. its the best balance I find, I did play a few games on full manual and whilst its alot more free, there is a steep learning curve to it and besides, it nullifies the player stats.
    I could play Joe Hart out in Midfield, and playing on manual, if i was good enough the passing could be just as good as Pirlo, Gerrard, Fabregas, Alonso etc, stats aren’t considered when playing full manual, its purely down to the human players aiming ability. which is wrong. Same with shooting.

    So no’freshen up’ period before PES 16 as you originally stated then NG !

  10. Grilled Seabass/Paul – I found passing in the PES2016 demo perfectly fine where it was – 1-bar (or Level 1 as the new lingo has it).

    Paul, I thought that’s not how manual (or unassisted) passing works – that it does take account of stats and nothing else, i.e. no assistance from the game provided?

    And regarding the freshen up period before PES2016, the question was always what I’m going to do when I want to play a football game between now and then. I thought FIFA15/PES2013/PES5/whatever, but it seems PES2015 fits the bill perfectly. It really is very nice slipping back into the PES gameplay after a time away. I’ve already (re)played to the end of season 14 (lost the CL final on pens to Bayern) and designed a new kit. It’ll be Monday before I get the chance to play again, but I plan to.

    Shed – on FIFA15, Professional feels too easy and World Class too hard, so you’re left with either putting up with one or the other, or twiddling the passing assistance and/or sliders to make a custom intermediary difficulty. I’m not against that, but don’t want to get involved with that at this stage of the footy game year. Given that this time next week I’ll hopefully have Metal Gear 5 – an event on the same level as any PES, for me – I’m not going to spend a substantial amount of time tinkering under the hood of a football game.

  11. NG – It’ll be interesting to here your views on an open plan MGS. I bet your drooling over the build you own base and add bits to it mode.

  12. that’s always been the big mystery of manual passing/stats to me – does it take your manual input at all times, with stats maybe affecting passing pace and how quickly your player gets it out from under his feet? Or does it add an extra degree of random error to your aim if your player is Joe Hart? Or an extra degree of correction to your manual error if the player has high stats? I have always suspected that FIFA’s manual is the first of these, while PES’s is the last. But impossible to be sure

    FIFA16 has this really good ‘pass with purpose’ option using R1+X this year which pings it hard to feet. By mixing up hard and medium passes through midfield you can open up the play and create new angles, a bit like playing Streetfighter

  13. Tiger upper cut!

  14. werd – the Gamescom presentation of the Forward Operating Base section of MGSV made my jaw drop. Not felt anything like that about a non-PES game since… I can’t think of a time. Kiefer Sutherland as Snake will still take some getting used to.

    abbeyhill – that new pass with purpose sounds great, but I wonder if it’ll be ‘balanced’ with the rest of the game as the next few weeks and months go on. Remember when FIFA introduced custom set pieces – you know, where you drew lines on the pitch telling your players where to run and when and so on? I think I played with it for an hour, saw that it made no real difference to my free kicks and corners, and never used it again. I’m not aware of any great users of custom set pieces and don’t remember any outcry when it was quietly dropped a few editions ago. It never caught on because they were careful to make sure it wasn’t overpowered, to the point where it had no power or point at all.

  15. Well, there’s a turn up for the books! I still think this is one of the best PES’s I’ve ever played, without a shadow of a doubt. And I’m with Lloyd – 0 bar all the way!

    Oh and I won the treble last night. It was actually a fairly routine 3-0 win over a Juventus team I seem to meet every season and give them a good tanking. The standout goal was a rip snorter from William Carvalho after a typically Viera-style run from midfield.

    Yet, despite winning the treble and having a hell of a team I’m definitely going to continue playing and go for the mythical 6 trophy season.

  16. Chris – That’s the holy grail, 6 trophies. Got all 5 on 2012. Three times. BOOM!!

  17. If you carry on with that backup save are you not worried you have the ‘replayed a match’ stain on any subsequent trophies? If you’re just carrying on for some enjoyment then sounds the best plan but if you’re trying to nail that treble then surely the only option is to restart, season 1, division 2…. Go on, you know it sounds good….

  18. exactly Turf, that replayed match stain and amateur difficulty level smear would leave not-Greg’s trophy cabinet pretty tarnished. Obviously I wouldn’t think any less of the man if he chose not to restart but…..

    Great work from Chris though – sounds like quite an achievement in this edition of PES!

  19. Hey I only resumed from the backup save so I could jump into a match straightaway, rather than pick up from pre-season of Season 15 as it would have been. This alternate tail-end of Season 14 isn’t canon. And I lost the league title race and the Champs League final in this parallel reality anyway…

  20. I had a similar experience after I hung up my PES 2015 Master League boots. After a few weeks off, I felt an itch and decided to play a quick game. No reloading of the ML save, I just went for a good old-fashioned exhibition match. I went completely random* using the triangle button and ended up with Sporting Lisbon. Can’t remember who I played now, but it was a fantastic game. I didn’t run away with it, I didn’t get overrun. It was just a close but enjoyable game. The essence of PES that had long since been diluted with the toils of ML.

    *until I found a team I liked

  21. NG – you knew full well that I would start PES 2015 again. Like you it was like going back home again and the game just has a more robust feel about it. Just out of interest what camera angle did you use for the FIFA 15 games as it looks a really good angle.

  22. Tommy – I love ML so much because it creates context and meaning for the matches – a world of its own. One of the reasons I tend to be able to leave demos well alone pretty quickly is that the games don’t mean anything beyond themselves.

    Darryl – haha! well, I knew you’d deleted your ML so I wasn’t sure, but curiosity is a powerful lure… It’s the pace and the style of PES that makes it what it is. The clunkiness and clumsiness is part of it. When they praise PES2016’s fluidity and responsiveness on the forums, I just worry. PES has always had huge flaws but has always been greater than the sum of its parts. PES2015 just went back up another few notches for me this week.

    Re. the FIFA15 camera angle, I’d have to start up the game again to check. I wasn’t planning to do that ever again, but I will later tonight if I get time.

  23. NG – that is why I have real concerns for this years game as the clumsiness is part of the games strength in my opinion. The game doesn’t always work and you get moments when you feel like all your players are walking through sand and not responding to your inputs but you then get the moments where all the parts come together in one moment and you look back in wonder at what has just happened. This is what makes PES so special and why I came over to the dark side in the first place. Yesterday I was watching the cricket all day long to my wife’s bemusement. The series is now over with England having won the Ashes, which first puzzled her as to why they even play the final game. The game itself to the casual observer is a boring one. Australia are in complete domination having led the first innings by 300 or so runs and made England follow on and bat again. In England’s second innings they have been under the stranglehold due to some tight Australian bowling and scored about 2.5 runs per over and at the close of today’s play at 200-6. The modern trend would be as the series is over anyway to throw their wickets away, but they still plugged away. I found myself fascinated by this as I was still watching it as even though England are not going to win this game and the cricket was dull as well but could I take my eyes of it. The explanation for this is a simple one as the reason I was watching it was because it was cricket and I love cricket. Without these long dull periods you would not get the highs of the opening morning the other day where England bowled Australia all out before lunch and Broad took 8 wickets. These things can’t happen all the time otherwise it would not be cricket anymore. Following a lower league football team can be like this and there are some clubs who stay in the same division year after year and don’t experience promotion or relegation but fans still go because they simply love watching their club. The modern day football which I despise is going against all this as there is a need all the time for drama and I find the game boring as a result.

    I know it is only a demo but that does not stop you seeing the blueprint for what they want to do with the game this year. I wish PES 2014 had never happened for different reasons as it was a case of Problem, Reaction, Solution. Here we had a game that was so un-responsive that people where so willing to receive the type of game that this years is going to offer and that is a move to the FIFA model, which is a financially lucrative one and appeals to the modern day football generation. If you were into conspiracy theories then you may say 2014 was designed on purpose like this.

    I have already re-started 2015 again as for me it could well be the last proper PES game we get.

  24. Darryl – my FIFA15 camera is Tele Broadcast with 13 Height and 0 Zoom. I just went on to have a look and ended up playing half a match – no question that it’s a good game (it was miles better last September, though), but FIFA’s smoothness and responsiveness lends itself too easily to ‘fast and furious video gamin’ action!!!’

    Okay, you can slow the play down deliberately, as in PES, but when the capacity is there to slip into controller-grip mode and just ping the ball around, that’s what’ll happen.

    I always remember PES2010 being slammed for its players’ slow turning circles, but for me that’s what made that game a bit of a PES classic (ditto PES2014, he whispered quietly). Perfect 1:1 correspondence between controller input and on-screen events isn’t what we really want as PES fans, even if we think we do! Representation of player stats is what we want, and part of that is having a big lumbering centre half who can’t do a 180-degree Cruyff turn. Online has its say here too, because that’s exactly what the online players do want – 11 players who are all virtually the same and offer the same degree of basic ball control.

    Currently playing the start of Season 15 in my PES2015 ML. Happy.

    I’ve had a look again at the PES2016 demo and its slick responsiveness – almost universally praised on the PES forums – is slightly worrying, but there’s enough of a kinship on show with PES2015 and PES, for me, to be excited for the new game again. We shall see though.

  25. As I was catching up on the comments, I was thinking to myself that 2010 was almost the perfect embodiment of lumbering flaws that made every player so unique… Your comment above sums it up perfectly. That Fifa style where every player turns on a sixpence is exactly what spoils the illusion for me, you need to notice your players/team improving to feel the full immersion.

  26. Pete — exactly… on PES2010 there were only a few players who were capable of doing the 180-turn that we’ve come to expect all football game players to be able to do. How did that happen?! PES2010’s three-point-turns were an intrinsic part of the gameplay and part of what made that a great PES. You had to learn how to build attacks and conserve possession with a set of players who would handle ‘badly’ by our standards these days. It’s this standard that I’d query — it’s a bogus one, largely, and it’s disturbing to see it called for over and over on the forums. PES2016’s lithe, ballerina-like players are among the least attractive parts of the gameplay on show for me.

    I can feel myself whipping myself into a frenzy of wanting to play PES2010 — and the unjustly neglected PES2014 again! — just to experience the GOODNESS of their so-called clunky control schemes again, but I’m having very satisfactory sessions on PES2015 in the mornings this week.

  27. I’m a bit dubious about everyone lapsing back into this ‘FIFA is just fast pinball football, PES is a real simulation’ again

  28. abbeyhill – that’s an exaggeration of what’s currently being discussed. I played FIFA15 for a half this morning and there’s a solid physical game of footy in there, but it and PES are both chasing an illusory Grail of ‘fluidity and responsiveness’. Community consensus is calling for something that it doesn’t know it doesn’t really want. We were happiest with football games when the players didn’t all (or nearly all) spring around like ninjas at the merest twitch of the stick. The simulation/arcade distinction is a mostly bogus one, as a look at old PES games shows that they were never simulations, and there has never been a football game simulation. i’m still hearing FIFA16might be The One Foretold In Legend, but also that the shrieks of horror from the pick-up-and-play online multitudes are getting louder. Can EA resist the siren call?

  29. not-Greg – sure, I agree with all that. It was just the ‘fast and furious video gamin action’ comment re FIFA15 which surprised me – following a pretty solid 18 months on FIFAs 14 & 15, consistently averaging less than a goal a game, I’d currently associate the series more with dour unrelenting suffocating midfield battles than ‘action’ per se!

    this FIFA16 closed beta actually reminded me of PES2010 and some of the other older ones in terms of players not being that agile and responsive. As you have said, this adds a huge amount to the game. When a ball is heading towards your player you are immediately mentally calculating his current pace, orientation and abilities and narrowing the range of possibilities accordingly, thinking ahead as to how the move can develop, rather than just taking a touch and turning a couple of times to create space

  30. I’ve just returned from two weeks abroad and missed the demo frenzy so just catching up now. Everything has been mentioned so no need to repeat but I’m optimistic should the foul situation be sorted.

    I also took advantage of a PS4 1tb with PES 2016 bundle for £300, pes is all I need after all. Fingers crossed it arrives near release date.

  31. abbeyhill – in that context I was speaking about defending in FIFA, which feels poor to me (on Legacy defending, mind). There are too many ‘turnovers’ of possession to the extent that things can get very scrappy and scruffy very quickly. This does indicate FIFA is actually freer and that PES is coded with scripts that promote continuity of possession for both sides.

    In general the current Philosophy of Football Gaming as exemplified by both games and the general tenor of forum discussion is in question here, and I worry for the future. I’m always anxious about the baleful influence of online multiplayer, whose followers (99% of them anyway) prize fast and furious fluidity and responsiveness (and no fouls) above any other quality whatsoever. My first few seasons on CM last year were among the very best footy gaming experiences I’ve ever had.

    With all that said, I’ve come to realise over the last few weeks that the two games remain very different single-player games at core, although they play virtually the same online. I prefer PES offline, which isn’t surprising given the track record.

    Cook – I strongly doubt fouls will be addressed – this is 2015 and offline players aren’t the prime market. But I could live with PES2015 levels of fouls, which would still be terrible but I’ve found the game deep and interesting, and am still rather incredibly playing it now.

  32. Abbeyhill – my argument is that the games are moving in the opposite directions and with Fifa you do have to take a lot more into account when shooting alone. PES has become a lot more contextual based in most areas and this does lead to the game feeling more scripted.

    If PES wants to move to a model to satisfying the on-line game then the inevitable is that sliders would have to be introduced to the series as the game is going to be less compatible with the off-line side of the game. It is no coincidence that sliders where brought into Fifa the more that on-line play and Ultimate Team grew. That way we can we can all be accommodated as referee strictness can be altered and the on-line gamer can have thier free flowing game they crave.

  33. Just to chip in with some random thoughts….

    Last night I fancied some quick, easy access footy gaming, FIFA 15 was in the console, the rule was there to play that again but no, I took it out and slotted in the PES 15 disc again.
    Resumed my ML campaign mid way through season 6.

    I could have played the PES16 demo, as it does play very nicely, and I think it will actually be a very good, playable game come 18th Sept, barring a disastrous Konami knob-twiddle, but as NG said, the demo games have no end goal, nothing except the quick short fix from the friendly games, I wanted something with purpose, so PES 15 was the choice again.

    Despite my justified issues with PES 15 which I’ve voiced on many occasions, I do succumb to the fact that at its core, PES 15 is a very very good game, borrowing some elements from PES 14, which were good ideas, just implement very poorly or not finished in 2014, and fixed for the most part in 2015.
    There is a right way to play PES 15, which is very much aligned to how real football is played, you don’t see forwards get the ball in real life with their back to goal, marked by a defender and turn and run straight at goal in one movement, well you do, but usually limited to world class players who possess the skills to do it, most of the time though play is held up, bringing midfield into play and building the attack, and this is definitely the right way to approach PES 15, using the FIFA 15, turn and run and gun at goal method rarely works.

    PES 15’s main issues for me over the long term is no matter how ‘right’ you try to play the game, player stats largely count for nothing, and the physicality side of the game is very poor, as in regardless of player height, weight, strength etc the physical battles always go in favour of the COM. Making it very hard to mimic tactics like playing into a big target man effectively.

    PES 2011 was the last PES game where I truly felt that stats were paramount, every point or 2 in a stats category actually meant something.
    I remember signing Villalba, who had awesome balance, dribbling and technique stats, and I was bak;e to use him to dart past players, dribble, sidestep. open up many more scoring opportunities….. you could see the difference that stats made, unfortunately in PES 15, its too much like having 11 identikit players on the pitch.

  34. Darryl — there’s strong resistance to sliders in PES and with good reason, but if Konami want to go all-in for the online side of things (which it seems they do) and if they want to make changes to the core values of PES to facilitate that (I think it’s unarguable that they have, in a number of ways), then they’d better introduce sliders tout suite! They don’t have to be as extensive as FIFA’s. A few toggle switches to control ref strictness and AI first touch would do.

    Paul — completely agree with all of that and I say again that it’s very obvious in PES2015 when one of your high-statted players has a great game, he’s nerfed for several games after. The Gerrard goal I posted above came in the midst of an explosive and spectacular all-round performance. I’ve played a few sessions since and Gerrard has been completely anonymous (I could be mischievous and suggest how lifelike that is, but I won’t…). That nerfing of supposedly star players and the general nibbling away at player individuality is another area where I think Konami have made a deal with the online devil. It makes sense to have a mechanic like that in MyClub where you want to keep most of the human players bobbing about on the same level and always looking for new players. In Master League, we’re used to our flair players and our big stoppers and our tricksy wingers being pretty much the same consistently.

    It’s probably gone similarly with you and your spread-out 6 seasons of ML in PES2015 as it is with me and my spread-out 6 seasons of CM in FIFA15. There’s no way anybody plays that many matches in a bad football game.

  35. NG – whilst I’ve never ever said PES 15 is a ‘bad game’, cause its not, I have changed my opinion that its not the ‘decent game’ i once thought, and is actually a very good game, only let down by some basic issues.

    Imagine PES15’s game play, with PES13’s editing abilities and stadiums/creator, and PES 10’s ML – that right there is the perfect storm of PES elements.

    I just really hope Konami have done more than changed the font on the ML menu screens when they say they have revamped the mode. if we get a ML with some substance, I think the gameplay will hold up well enough to carry PES 16.

    Im currently working on a little idea….. making an excel spreadsheet that I can enter the teams league positions each season into when playing PES 16, so I can track over the course of x number of seasons where teams finish in the league, interested to see if theres a trend of domination by one team or a spattering of championships diluted per team.
    might even adapt it to include FA cup wins and top scorers, one for the more stats-nerdy i think ……. WERD?

  36. Paul – Man Utd have 6 out of the last 9 titles in my ML world. I have 2 and Spurs got the other. I’m in season 2034/2035

  37. Paul – well ahead of ya. I used to take a long look at each league inthe ML world before I switched off on an evening. I used to note down league positions in my ps2 days. I didnt with Fifa as in the real world I thought it would play itself out just like MOTD.
    After editing PES into my Bundesliga or English superleague(Chelsea scaled back to circa 1987, inclusion of Luton etc)My world threw up a few surprises. I loved watching a relegation battle at the foot of the table, rooting for QPR/Gladbach to get out of trouble. It was another part of my edited world come to life. I dont know how many ML seasonthis term I will finish, 3 would be a big thing esp with a new baby, but I will always have my trusty notebook by my side and maybe a cup of tea and a biscuit.

  38. Of course as per PES of old this should be available in game, detailed stats, would love to see them return.

  39. Werd/Paul – in one of my notebooks I have the entire transfer dealings of all the other teams in a long ML campaign

  40. Paul – totally agree spot on. Let’s face facts that ML is a very poor mode as you have said before on USB due to lack of attention. It needs serious attention in the following areas:-

    Player stats – they need a complete overall as the stats are just random and don’t accurately reflect players positions and lead to an unbalanced game. Lack of resources is n not the issue. Football Manager e-mails all the football forums looking for volunteers to update the database each year and they get an advanced copy of the game. This works twofold as it helps promote the game.

    Player Ratings – the player ratings again just seem to be random and don’t reflect the players performance. You should also be able to check these throughout the course of the game to influence your substitutions. The ratings should also link into player form which it doesn’t.

    Player form – again these are just random form arrows. Fifa excels in this area and the morale arrows accuratly reflect both the players form from the ratings and players happiness. How often do you get a morale boosting win away at a top club to find in the next game that your players are a mixture of green, blue or purple arrows. Then you find in another game you get thrashed at home and you are treated to a sqaud of orange and red arrowed players. Just doesn’t make any sense and ruins the experience.

    Table scripting – it really is about time this was sorted out as this is meant to be a new generation of gaming. I have seen it mentioned that this is to keep us interested throughout the season. It could well be or could be just poor programming.

    Player development – bring back.player development tracking – simple.

    Many other areas need to be in there as we have all said before like stadium editor back, realistic youth team, better transfer system and full editing ability but the above is just fundamental basics.

  41. Agree 100% on all those points Darryl, another thing id add in to the ML improvements list is individual player training, ability to train players with new skills or positions, and re-introduction of management of club staff…. hire physic, coach, youth club manager etc which all have direct impact on how well those areas progress.
    All stuff that we had in the past but has been carved away over the years.

    I guess we will have to see exactly what this ‘completely overhauled master league, that has been reworked or built from the ground up’ actually entails.

    Im still curious to see how the option file will work as it was all but officially confirmed that users could upload images to the PS4, but its not been mentioned anywhere that option file sharing is a possibility, as far as i know game data is still locked to the host console and cant be shared.
    So in essence you could attain all the kit files but still have to manually edit every team/kit yourself.

  42. Abbey – not just us then, glad to hear it 🙂

    Paul/Frater – are sponsors and badge making back in the edit mode or just in option/kit files? Would be nice if it was as most Bundesliga badges are basically shapes and numbers so are easy to recreate.

  43. Paul – I am almost certain that the ‘Revamped Master League’ is just a face lift to try to fool people into believing it is something more. Just looking at the menu options it is the same old stuff. Would be very suprised if it was anything else in all honesty. That is my understanding as well as option file sharing will not be available. You wouldn’t believe we are supposedly in the digital age???

    Frater – not heard much about badges to be honest. What is your new night time playing agenda going to be like now with two little one’s.

    Am starting to get back into Fifa now after a bit of PES de-programming. Playing on WC with tweaks and re-started PNE career a couple of days ago and all systems go now as great balance to games and using the camera angle NG posted. All good.

  44. I’d be amazed if ML actually is different too. Adam and others saying there’s been an ‘overhaul’ probably doesn’t mean anything more than cosmetic changes to navigation and design. I’m hoping for a transfer market that makes sense, and player development that makes sense. It’s not right for there to be just 10-15 players rated over 90 after 8 seasons – and half of them your own. It’d be nice to have bad Defaults again, but I think the starting Defaults being pretty good is now locked in as a feature.

  45. Frater – erm I’ve had a few PES 2015 games about 20:00 – 21:00 when its not my turn to put MW1 to bed. I’ll step up late night sesh’s when 2016 hopefully plops through my letter box. 0:00-01:30 three times a week.
    I have the 18th off and also a works night out then Mrs Werd and I are off to a spa to celebrate our anniversary on the Monday after. For now i’m dog tired by 21:00 and enjoy a red wine or Gin and orange around 22:00 and watching bbc4.
    When Fallout 4 hits I’ll be a zombie for at least 5 months!

    NG – MGSV looks well tasty. I spent most of yesterdays lunch hour watching youtube vids.

  46. well overhaul implies its new, not just menu changes but wouldn’t be the first time quondam have publicised and hyped up features then not delivered them.
    Also they stated a ‘brand new exciting transfer system’ …… id just be happy to have a decent realistic transfer system where theres no smiley faces involved.
    It should be like old where the better your scout is the quicker you uncover detailed stats, which then allows you to make an informed decision as to whether to bid for a player.
    Player trades, early contract renewals, and clauses all need to be in, and just to NOT see Pirlo playing for Hull City would be good!

  47. Come off it Paul, seeing Pirlo playing for Hull City is why we all (or almost all) love Master League!

    I do like your regular Latin auto-correct for Konami though. ‘Belonging to an earlier time’ seems to sum the company up perfectly.

  48. Abbeyhill – bastard auto-incorrect got me again,although thanks for the learnings of the latin meaning, and yes, very apt, they shall now forever be known as quondam !!!

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