On Wednesday morning I was suddenly seized by an ardent desire to give PES2011 one more chance. After all the fuss I’ve made on the blog, it felt more than a little embarrassing. Having marched my troops to the top of the hill, would I let my pride get in the way of marching them back down again?
Like the friend who will tell you in excruciating detail all about their latest break-up in a long-term, epic relationship, and how this time the split’s definitely, finally for real, and there’s no way, ever, they’re ever going to get back with the other person—
And then you see them back together the next day, and your friend gives you a sheepish grin: “What else can I do?”
Well, I’m back with PES2011. For now. I’ve gone right back to to basics in an effort to get at the game that so many others report themselves to be playing. The one without the excruciating instances of step-arounds, stumbles, player switching issues, elephant touches, and so much more.
Of course, I was trying to go back to PES2010 on the PS3… I’d already had a good long spell on it last year. Here’s my Track Record from back then—I’d only played one match on PES2010 in this new spell when I took the picture:
In total, all told, I’ve already played PES2010(PS3) for just short of 311 hours, almost 290 of them in Master League. (What was I doing in Edit mode for two and a half hours?!)
Plan A was to add to that tally after giving up on the glitchy, unsatisfying PES2011.
I did get as far as re-starting PES2010 as Coventry City in a version of the Npower Championship, thanks to a nifty Option File I downloaded from somewhere or other. I went on to play a full session of 8 matches.
Getting to know PES2010 again was a tricky prospect. Passing felt as if it was all over the place. It was quite common for passes to go off almost at right angles to the direction aimed at. This kind of thing can be fanwanked as representative of player stats, but I couldn’t help thinking: “PES2011 does passing much better than this…”
All told, my realistic-feeling Coventry City boys failed to score a goal at all in our first 4 matches. My first goal came in a 1-1 draw in game 5, and then I lost the next two and was knocked out of the FA Cup.
It was an interesting session of virtual football, I have to say. At the end of it I looked at the table and felt happy, really, that I seemed to have a season of struggle ahead of me.
The excessive speed of PES2010 isn’t very attractive. I’d still say that this game was the best PES has been on next-gen, for me, but I’m under no illusions about its shortcomings.
I’m very well aware that many are playing and enjoying PES2011 regardless of all the issues I found in the game. In fact, most say they don’t see the issues at all, or at least not enough to be bothered by them.
So I’ve gone back to PES2011. Here’s how I went about it.
I made another user account on my PS3 and started again from there. I updated the game to the latest version. I grabbed the most comprehensive WENB Option File I could. I painstakingly copied the hundreds of files to my alt account’s virgin PES2011 data folder. It took 30 minutes. When I tried to run it, I discovered that I’d picked up the EU version (BLES0121) of the OF instead of the UK version (BLES0120). I got hold of the correct file and did it all again, another 30 minutes’ work. All the while thinking: “Would I be doing this for any other game? Would I be doing this for anything at all, in my whole life?”
I need PES2011′s slower-paced gameplay and superior passing. (And I also missed this song.) If I go back to PES2010(PS3), PES6(360), or any other PES at all, I’d miss out on the great advances in gameplay that PES2011 has brought to the table. My hatred of the stumble et al blinded me to the game’s positive qualities for much of the past few months.
At the time of writing I’ve had time to set up and start a new Master League. Yes, I know, yet another new Master League; but one of them will be for keeps, sooner or later).
After a lot of dithering, I’ve decided to leave the league structures of my WENB Option File intact. It introduced the Bundesliga. There’s no PES United or WE United to mess about with now.
I’ve tentatively started as Anderlecht, playing in Division 2 of the English league, alongside the made-up Konami teams. So far that’s not annoying me too much.
So how did the early games go? The early games went fine. I only saw the dreaded stumble (the most loathsome gameplay feature in any PES, ever, IMO) once or twice per match. I saw enough of PES2011′s general gameplay in the early matches to convince me that I’ve made the right decision to try again.
I’ve seen a few things that strike me as being new. I’ve seen a post-goal celebration where the player runs down the touchline with a handheld-style camera following directly behind. I’ve never seen that before. I know I’d have remembered it.
And—injuries! I’ve got them coming out of my ears. 3 training injuries in the first few weeks of the season. Still no injuries in-game, though.
Am I back to stay? After the back-and-forth of the past few weeks, I’d be an idiot to say that this is it now.
I’m tempted to say so anyway and just be an idiot.
All I can say is, I’ll see.
By Monday’s post I should have played a decent crop of matches in my new Master League. Either that or I’ll be playing Subbuteo by then.
Any half moon encounters?
Any advanced start?
How’s the player values with a Master League started after the game was patched?
Questions, questions
Liam—still seeing quite a few of them but they don’t seem as bad, early days though. Sadly the most irritating steparound, from layoff free kicks, has already reared its ugly head. The stumble seems to be still in the game but curiously shortened, without the agonising pause at the tail-end. Hmmm.
Fantastic!! I hope this Last ditch attempt to drag PES11′s wounded body from the battlefield actually pays off for you.
Half circle step arounds ALWAYS ALWAYS occur with layed off free kicks, nothing you can do, just grin n’ bare it.
But trust me, using the combo of Right stick jostle and Timed sprinting, you will see less and less stumbles and the ones you do see don’t render the player as inept as the extended ones.
Did you start as Anderlecht with the defaults or with real players?
Game Speed ? Half Length ?
Cheeky little goal i bagged last night….was the winning goal too!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQq3y4zLyc4
Chris—I avoided the Advanced Start without having to take special precautions. The player values look normal. I’m not looking at this Anderlecht career as the one I’ll necessarily play—it was created just to test the waters, but I could easily go on with it too. I’ve started to get to know the players, who are better than the Defaults as a team but not that much better, so it does feel like starting a career with a bunch of alt-Defaults. Another session or two and I think I could be attached to them.
Paul—nice goal, first of all. You really feel goals more in a football game when they go in off the woodwork. I got a pretty conventional strike earlier from 25 yards or so that rocketed in off the far post and then rebounded to the other side of the net as yours did. It felt 10 times better for doing so.
I started with Anderlecht’s original squad, which I’ve started to get to know and become attached to. They’ve got this striker, Lukaku, who’s frighteningly good for an ‘average’ player of 70-something OVR. He’s got a shot on him that’s almost Schwarz-like (Lukaku got the goal mentioned above). If I carry on with Anderlecht (which looks increasingly likely now) I’ll post a squad list on Monday.
I’m playing 10-minute matches on Top Player.
I’m not convinced that the high instances of the stumble I saw in my main stint with the game were due to my method(s) of playing the game. The stumble animation in this new stint looks totally different! I haven’t seen an old-style one yet. When my players stumble now, they seem to recover much quicker. Before, they’d always pause for an extra second or two before straightening up and continuing. I’ll capture some footage of the new stumble the next time I see it, and compare it to the old. Remember that I played 10 full seasons of ML in PES2011 without seeing a single injury. We all know about the Advanced Start bug as well. So it’s feasible (if still unlikely IMO) that the stumble animation really was different in ‘my version’ of the game back then too.
The Lukaku you mention is a hot prospect in real football too!
Chelsea, real Madrid etc are all monitoring him closely, he’s a great finisher for a young lad and like mentioned so many times before, the underlying stats on PES are really what count, the OVR rating is somewhat misleading.
Its mind boggling isn’t it how there can apepar to be different instances of the PES game depending on different factors.
If your seeing a completely different stumble animation to the one you used to see then something MUST have been corrupt with your old ML campaign, unless Konami have patched it slightly in a DLC and not told anyone – highly unlikely!
Ive never seen the stumble, pause and stand up animation that blighted you though, its always more of a stumble, recover, run away type thing that whilst annoying, doesn’t really affect my game too much.
I wasn’t insinuating you were playing the game wrong, just meant that due to your corrupt ML last time and using the tactics i mentioned, hopefully you’d see less and less of the issues that annoyed you so much.
Goals do have more of an impact when they cannon off the woodwork, especially volleys and long rangers, im yet to score the little R1 ‘dink’ over an onrushing keeper though, that’s eluded me so far.
Are you likely to carry on with Anderlecht then or once your play test is adequately finished, start a new ML with the defaults ?
Hows the OF you installed? look good?
Paul—that just goes to show two things, first that I don’t keep up with the wider world of football anywhere near enough. (I’d genuinely never heard of Lukaku.) Second, that PES still does an eerily fine job of replicating the feel of individual players. Lukaku is a Drogba in the making. I think that’s just tipped me over to carrying on with Anderlecht now, no matter what. Did I mention I’m playing in the made-up D2 with Lollapalooza FC and so on? I think Konami intend for us to take to these teams in the way we took Vornander and Ruskin and so on to our hearts. I’ve decided to give it a go.
I don’t plan on starting any ML with the Defaults in this PES year now. PES2012 will see my next encounter with The Myth & co.
Could it really be possible that there are such things as ‘corrupted gameplay’ versions of PES2011, depending on how they’re set up, etc.? The Advanced Start bug is a definite fact, but it’s not gameplay. I do wonder what the real situation is here.
The WENB OF I installed is great. It must be the same one you have—version 4, with the Bundesliga as well, yes? I was a little disappointed that it overwrote PES United and WE United, but it’s all for the best. I’d have started with one of them if they were included and then I’d never have discovered this wunderkind at Anderlecht.
It baffles me, as ive seen and heard enough stories now to realise that people are getting much differing experiences with PES, some good, some awful.
The thing is. if there are indeed 2 types of stumble animation, then both animations, even the horrible one, would have to be there intentionally. I mean someone at konami would have had to model and render the player stances, and animate the movement, and write the code to include it in the game, and the logic code behind what instances fire off that animation. So how can there be 2 kinds of the same animation and what causes a complete clusterf*ck of a game setup that the naughty animation is fired up rather than the good-ish one!?!
Yes i use the WENB v4 OF – very good it is, all i will say is that thereare a fair few created players in there, like Eusebio etc, that if you buy in ML, always have purple arrows, so watch out!
I dont blame you, 6 months gone of the footy gaming year is no time to have to reinvest from scratch in a default ML team.
I look forward to reading about your PES11 ML exploits with Anderlecht – I bet you never thought you’d be hearing that this time last week!!
Paul—I’m not as much of a regular dropper-in on the forums as I used to be, but I’ve seen the same variances too. I just don’t know what to believe is true. It’ll be a long while before I’m prepared to consider my new PES2011 setup to be actually different from the old. My old PES2011 was fine for a long time before it went sour. This new stumble I’m seeing is very intriguing, though. And the new ‘touchline camera’ goal celebration is significant too, I think. I never saw it before, not even once (it’s memorable, and I’d remember it).
If I stay with the Anderlecht career, it’ll be weird playing in a D2 of Rillicknompaningshire Athletic FC and the like, and then going into the Premier League, but it’s PES – it’s a make-believe footballing world that not even the best OF can cover up. And personally, I don’t really want it covered up.
Must admit …. i couldnt persevere with Rillicknompaningshire Athletic et al, id need proper teams of some sort in there.
You mentioned in your last post about Lukaku and player individuality within PES.
Player individuality is what sets PES worlds apart from FIFA for me.
To sum it up, if i was in a Champions League semi final, losing 1-0 in the 80th Minute, and I needed a goal, in FIFA it wouldnt matter if I brought on a CB, RB, CM or CF …. every player would play exactly the same and be capable of exactly the same things (perhaps except some 5 star skill moves).
In PES I can bring on Villalba, a small, pacy skillful dribbler with excellent passing who can play in the hole and drive forward and support strikers, or a Stocker, Pacy winger with good crossing ability to plant one on my target man’s head … so many choices and each player plays so differently. That kind of thing really changes the game.
ou actually miss players when they are injured, suspended or out of form, you have to adapt the way you play to compensate, in FIFA its like having 11 robots, theres no ‘feel’ there.
I agree with Paul – it’s all about the feel on Pro Evo games. Though I’ve never really invested that much time on Fifa to give it a fair comparison.
Funnily enough Not-Greg, Lukaku is being hailed as the new Drogba in real life as well – though I think it’s more to do with his appearance/strength/height etc rather than his playing style. Type in “New Drogba” and Google will ahve loads of articles about him and even some Youtube clips.
Paul—I’ve now played three full (long) sessions with the made-up teams and I’ve started getting used to them. I’m not looking forward to seeing a couple always in the Premier League in the future, though. How did you set up your career? I remember you saying you spent a lot of time editing it even after the OF was all set up. Did you manually create a more acceptable D2 or just swap in some from the spare league with Porto/Cluj/etc.
Liam—I just took a look at Lukaku in my game and he’s 17, rated 75 OVR, and with superb supporting stats. I played one game and he scored both my goals. The youngster’s a lot better than Schwarz was at that age. It’ll be interesting to see how he develops. And he’s a definite ringer for Drogba, in looks as well as playing style.
In that one match just now I saw something I never saw in hundreds of hours and 10 full seasons previously—a player rolling around injured on the pitch. It was one of the opposition players. As I watched the little cut-scene I thought it was amazing how whatever I did on the previous setup completely removed that whole level of gameplay events—injuries—from my game. It’s pretty unacceptable that it’s even possible for a user to bring something like that about. The Advanced Start bug was bad enough, but this is worse. I can’t think of any precedent in all of PES history. Tut tut, Konami.
Lukaku is the \ best young outfield player in the game — he’s also well-regarded in real-life. You mentioned Drogba, but you’re not the first. Big, powerful, with a great first touch . . . the press are calling him “the new Drogba.” (And by ‘the press’,
I guess I mean the Mail, lol.)
I picked him up in my wii ML as a fill-in when Manchester United came in and poached my top-scorer Gignac (damn your eyes Furgeson, I hope I get the chance to knock you out of the Champions League), and I am looking forward to seeing him develop. He’s still behind Giroud and Gamiero, but when he does get a chance, he scores for me.
@Paul:
I think that ML files carry over data that shouldn’t be part of the ML itself — maybe some of the fixes that repaired things like the stumble animation and the appearance of injuries didn’t get updated in the individual ML?
That would explain some of the frustrations in the ML, but not the stumble animations that were plaguing not-Greg’s BAL career.
Just a thought(s). The joy of computers and computer games is that there *is* a logic to it all . . . we just have to find it!
Great to see your back playing ML2011, I hope it all works out. In my game Lukaku just moved clubs in a ‘mammoth’ deal. He is indeed the next Drogba. That’s weird that you’re seeing new animations but remember your game was somehow broke before, you had no injuries. Regarding player individuality, it’s one of the thongs that makes PES so special.
ck—tomorrow’s post will have video evidence of the stumble animation being different for me now, which is extraordinary if true. PES2011 is a much better game without the phenomenon that I call Stumble A. The ‘new’ versions of it, Stumble B and Stumble C, seem different to me, and different enough to change the gameplay for the better. I’ve completely wiped the slate clean with a restart on a fresh account (that it should have to come to this…). But I’d still say it’s got big problems. The allure of it for me is the passing, and, yes, the hairtrigger shooting, which I got used to over the past few months.
Grilled Seabass—it’s appalling that I’m seeing new animations and gameplay in my all-new ML! It means that back in October I did something innocuous with my options or editing or whatever that changed my gameplay for the worst. If indeed that is what happened. I don’t discount the possibility of a placebo effect. Take a look at tomorrow’s video evidence and see what you think.
@ Not-Greg..
When i originally setup my ML career, i was using an option file with the NPower Div 2 over the top of WENB’s base OF. It was really nice but it had altered the stats of teams and players in Div 2 and i wasnt liking it.
So created a brand new Ml with Just the latest WENB OF installed, the same one im in my 10th season of today, with my Div 2 rebranded as the Budweiser championship (with custom logo etc) and just a mix of random teams from all over in there…
Boca Jnrs, Werder Bremen, Rosenborg, Shakthar Donetsk, Rangers etc… as you say a little unrealistic when a couple of them come up to the premier league but doesnt really bother me at all.
Paul—ah, you did just the same as me in October when I set up my original ML. In this current one, I think I’m past the point of no return now. I’ll be carrying on with the made-up teams. They’re not too bad once you accept them as a reality and just get on with it. Kind of like putting up with ‘David Backham’ and the like in the days before mass editing on ISS/PES.
haha hows the new ML going?? reached the point of despair yet or enjoying it more?
@not-Greg
No injuries will occur during a ML campaign if one turns off the injuries in the Exhibition Mode settings screen prior to beginning said campaign. Strange that this should affect Master League, yet it does.
El-ahrairah—that was a possibility mentioned a few months ago, and duly investigated. The Injuries setting in Exhibition mode was untouched. I know my annual PES routine very well now, and it never involves turning off injuries whilst playing the initial hour or two of Exhibition matches. I don’t doubt that turning off injuries in the mode does affect ML as well, but in my case it must have been something else that dunnit
There’s a post going up at 12 today with clips of different stumble animations, including one that I’ve literally only just started to see this week after the fresh restart.
Yeeeessss!!! Finished Assassins Creed Brotherhood over the weekend and thought I’d carry on past the dreaded Newcastle match which has seen me abandon my ML on both previous attempts.
I decided to completely change my tactics beforehand – switching Schwarz to the more withdrawn left forward role and, more importantly, shifted my two wingers back to the halfway line. I also pulled my DM further back and sat Shimizu ahead of him, again on the halfway line, as a CM.
The game just completely changed for me! I had far more support when playing out of defence and my wingers played a far greater role defensively.
As a result, I nullified the extreme AI pressure to an extent by always having an outlet and also erradicated the ridiculous scorelines I was seeing more and more of.
Have I just had an epiphany or am I experiencing the ‘novelty’ factor after a prolonged absence from the game? Only time will tell but this is the most I’ve enjoyed PES 11 since last November. Thank GOD I have a football game back in my life… sounds sad, I know, but I don’t care!!!
Chris—you… You finished another game? There are other games than football games? I’ve heard about them, but I’ve never believed it myself…
As for your PES2011 experience, I’ve had a similar one with an all-fresh approach, in my case from a totally fresh start. As for the possibility of it being a temporary effect, only time will tell. I am still enjoying my born-again ML, as today’s post hopefully indicates, but I enjoyed the last one too for a while.
Not-greg – crazy isn’t it? I didn’t know what to do afterwards. I just put down the controller and walked away with a slight sense of loss; I wouldn’t recommend it to be honest.
Funnily enough, if it wasn’t for Newcastle’s abhorent tactics against me, PES would probably have stopped me finishing AC – it tried to hijack my progress a couple of times like the ‘Precious’ calling to me…
Chris—I think the main reason football games have such a hold over grown adults with jobs and other things going on is the sheer convenience of them. You don’t have to learn any new buttons, sit through tutorials, go on fetch-quests, nothing like that. Footy games are open-ended and will always be there for you after however many days or weeks apart. Football games are the faithful dogs of the gaming world…
that’s a very fair point not-greg – I’m trying to get into the highly rated Mass Effect 2, but it just all seems such hard work compared to firing up a game of FIFA on the PS3 or PES on the 3DS….
Abbeyhill – Mass Effect 2 is the only other non-football game I’ve finished since Fallout 3 which is a terrible state of affairs really. I think I only finished it because I needed the end save for ME 3!
AC Brotherhood, in truth, is an obsessive compulsive’s dream/nightmare and a PES that had really pissed me off still loomed large… no getting around it, football games are rather addictive (as long as there’s an element of immersion)
abbeyhill—there’s definitely a barrier between me and ‘proper’ games nowadays. It takes a lot of effort just to load one up and get through the inevitable unfamiliarity phase. And then coming back sometimes days or weeks later is problematic. Fallout 3, I’m afraid, has gone the way of too many other games. I keep meaning to get back to it (great game) but it never seems to happen…
Chris—I’ve still got Mass Effect 1 to get through before even considering ME2. Ditto Assassins Creed, which I bought way back when (2007?) and played the regualtion 2 hours of before abandonment. I need to win that pesky Lottery. It’s the only way I’ll ever get back to gaming the way I want to.