Never say ‘never say never again’ again
I was never going to get PES2009 on the PSP. I was quite proud of this stance. I already had PES2008(PSP) and that was all I needed. PES2009(PSP) was reportedly just a minor update. Why get it? Why be a robot, automatically buying anything with the words ‘Pro Evolution Soccer’ on it? The whole point of being a PES fan nowadays is that we’re not helping PES by following the franchise no matter what. So, no, I wasn’t going to get PES2009(PSP). This was going to be the start of the rebellion.
But now I’ve ordered PES2009(PSP). It’s on its way. (I know—how quaint of me to be buying games to play on the PSP. I keep meaning to, er, arrange for God or someone to make new games materialise on a memory card, but I still haven’t got around to it.)
I made sure to get it online, from an Amazon seller, preowned. It’s costing me £11, which is very reasonable. Every penny is going to the seller on Amazon.
It’s all PES2008(PSP)’s fault. PES2008(PSP) is an amazing game. It has re-whetted my appetite for quality handheld football gaming.
I thought FIFA09(PSP) would be the place to go. I had that purchase all cued up, my finger quivering over the mouse button. Then something stayed my hand, I know not what. I went and had a look at some reviews and videos. I wasn’t too impressed with the FIFA09 videos. The game looked just like bad old FIFA to me.
Then I had a look at PES2009(PSP) in action, and instantly knew that I was going to get it. It seemed indefinably different from PES2008(PSP), both in the speed of gameplay (slower) and in the animations. And there are a few new ones in there. I’ll see, anyway, when it arrives, which should be next week now.
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In other news, I carried out an experiment in Edit mode on PES2009(PS3). Me, in Edit mode. It’s a whole new world in there.
Over the past few months I’ve heard occasional rumblings about in-depth ‘realism editing’ on PES2009. This is where you reduce all players’ Speed and Agility stats by 30%, and boost their Stamina by about 10%.
It should make for a slower-paced, more simulation-oriented PES2009. I could see the appeal of it in theory. Sadly there is no Global Editor for PS3—something to do with its save files being incompatible with something, or something—so it has to be done by hand.
There’s no way I was spending tens of hours Editing every player. All I wanted to do was test this theory out. So I edited just two teams: England and Germany. I went through their squads and reduced all outfield players’ Speed and Agility stats by 30%. A player with 90 for speed went down to 62-ish,for example. Most players were in the 75-85 zone and found themselves reduced to the 50s. I boosted Stamina to around the 80-90 mark, across the board. Every other attribute remained the same.
Rooney still has his strength and shooting power. It’s just creating the chance for him in the first place that is made so much harder. With this Editing regime, you can no longer burst away from opposition players. I’m used to receiving the ball, jockeying for it, then bursting away from the defender, arcing in on goal, and having the shot.
That signature PES move is about a thousand times harder to pull off with these Edited stats. In fact, I never managed it once in the space of three 15-minute Exhibition games on Professional difficulty. Every chance I made had to be worked hard for, with pass and move wholly taking the place of kick and run. It could be argued that this is just as unrealistic as the default gameplay, that a happy balance should be found. But it’s a welcome change. If it wasn’t for the game’s crude 8-way directional movement, I could almost have been playing FIFA08 through a PES-tinged looking glass.
One drawback is that I found it encouraged even more ’sprint abuse’. My finger wanted to squeeze that sprint button all the time, even more than usual, because the players were now just so slow.
It was a successful test. I really enjoyed the games. It was a completely different PES2009 experience, and worth exploring in more depth. It’s tempting to plunge right in and start mass-editing every player in the game, and seeing where it might lead. (How would Master League work? Player growth would have to be disabled, and I don’t think I’d like that.)
But I’ll save it for a rainy day. I’ve got quite a few back-up plans now if PES2010 fails to impress. FIFA10, of course; the PSP version(s) of PES; even the older PES games. Now there’s another back-up plan.
Haha, shame on you my friend! . . . You just couldn’t resist, could you? Imagine how I feel. Well, I decided against getting Fifa 09 (PS2), even though having played it, I truly appreciate the improved physics engine, etc. (feels heavier and surprisingly realistic), and also PES 2009 in spite of favorable reviews. I am patiently waiting for the ‘new’ next generation of gaming consoles to get new football games, although I will definitely be drooling over upcoming next-gen installments, and be checking up with you who will probably be getting them all
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Steph Wheeler—It was a semi-impulse buy that I kind of regret now, but I’m still looking forward to getting it. I’ve got lots of other games to be getting on with, but still there’s nothing like playing a new PES game for the first time. PES2009(PSP) will be, I hope, different enough from PES2008(PSP) for me to get that buzz.
Are you saying that you’re waiting for the PS4/Xbox720 era of football games? In a way I don’t blame you.
I can’t see myself not getting FIFA10—something would have to go drastically, spectacularly wrong for me not to get it this year. PES2010 is an unknown, and I mean it when I say that I won’t get it if it’s just another incremental update wrapped in clever marketing. The law of diminishing returns has struck PES with a vengeance over the past few years, arguably from PES6 onward.
You are SO going to get PES2010. You should just stop lying to yourself now and come to terms with it. Why the heck wouldn’t you? You write the blog!
You did right with fifa09(psp), I’ve got it and its not a patch on PESO8(PSP).
I’ve just moved onto Legendary on FIFA09 (360) in Manager Mode with the default assisted settings and it plays a very good game, I’ve had quite a few low scoring draws, close wins and narrow defeats with these settings, might be worth a try not_greg.
Yeah, you got it!
Surfer Dude, I am confident not-Greg will not be getting it if things turn out for the worst, which PES 2010 is just average, a good game, better than the previous version, but not quite up to par as to the wow factor and the effort-reward relationship. Not-Greg, will surely know what to look for but he could change the name of the site to Fifa Chronicles if need be.
Not-Greg I have to share that some good things are happening for me in terms of my amateur career
. Soon I will be posting more videos on my channel. Not much to see now, but I will keep you posted. See ya!
Surfer Dude—I do mean it, regardless of the blog title and my own tradition. It’s ‘line in the sand’ time! If push comes to shove I’ve always got the PSP PESes to tide me over, and maybe an edited PES2009 as detailed in the post. FIFA10. There are lots of options really. I know I buckled on PES2009(PSP), but it is July now and the game came out last year. Similarly, the most I’d do for an average PES2010 would be to pick it up next spring in a bargain bucket. I’ve said all along that’s the most I will do for another ‘incremental update’ PES this year.
Makershaker—I had and enjoyed FIFA07 on PSP, and regret trading it in. I’m happy enough with PES on PSP right now. Especially so close to the next football game season.
I’m still on World Class on the ‘big school’ FIFA, playing with my usual mix of manual, semi-assisted and assisted settings, and have just started regularly knocking in goals from distance. Special post on Monday with goals galore (well, two of the best ones).
Steph Wheeler—never say never and all that, but I can’t see myself ever really changing the name of the site to FIFA Chronicles, even if PES completely dies as a viable current game—which it could well do: there’s definitely a special tension in the air this year…
I’ll be interested to see how the PSP 09 plays. I have thought about giving it a go, but it’s 29.99 in game shops here- no chance.
I’m still addicted to 08 on the PSP, i feel bad for writing this game off so early- im now into season 2012. I won the treble last year BUT it was on normal difficulty. Ive stepped up to professional now and, although im top, ive lost more than usual already. I still find the PSP versions unusually tough- I can’t defend.
On a side note, is Malgani Maradona?
The nice thing about global editing is that you can edit every player in the game — including Konami youth players — and do so by a percentage, so that instead of just reducing everyone’s stat by X points, you are compressing the stats of all the players so that there is a shorter overall range between the slowest player and the fastest.
If you have to do so by hand, you won’t be able to snag all the youth players and/or classics that you haven’t yet unlocked, which might make for an imbalanced game, but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker. Players like Gambino or Shaw might well become the True Terrors of world football in that setup!
Yes.
Not Given—I’ve had a few matches on PES2009(PSP) now. It arrived just after I finished today’s post—the seller’s getting a 5-star review, I only ordered it yesterday afternoon! Early impression is that it’s not enough of a change from 08 to justify you (or me, really) getting this game when there’s still unfinished business with 08. I’ll be going back to my ML in 08 and saving 09 for a rainy day. I’ll post about it in full on Wednesday now. There’s a lot more to be said, naturally. The shooting is weird for one thing, and the midfield ‘play’ is absolutely crazy times, like pinball crossed with bagatelle.
ck—the mass editing plan is another thing to be held in reserve for a rainy day if PES2010 does turn out to be a non-starter. The thing with this kind of Speed/Agility/Stamina mass edit is that I’m positive somebody’s done it already, on the PS3 no less, and there’s got to be a file out there somewhere. I ventured into the Editing sub-forums at all the usual places but couldn’t find anything. A few near misses, but no sign of the kind of file in question here.
Going back to my question at the end of my answer to your comment in the last post, it seems Castel di Sangro are in FM2009. I can’t check in the game itself right now, but I’ve been on the usual kind of vision quest in Google and found hints in strange forums… Even if they’re not in the game, they’re Editable-in. And yet another rainy day project materialises….
The thing of it is — and I realize I’m not a meta-uber-supremo football gamer, but PES2009 is a lot of fun!
I play a handful of times per week, and I’m having a great time. I love BaL, and it really means something when you lay off for an assist, or score a goal.
I do have a question on BaL that maybe somebody can help with:
What are those numbers next to your name on the bottom of the screen. There are various formations of 1,2,3,4 that appear, and I just don’t know what they mean.
Also, when you cross in from the wing and it doesn’t amount to anything, does that count as a pass that was incomplete; i.e. does it hurt your rating?
Thanks for any help!
Hey not-Greg, I’m sure that by now you’ve already seen the french magazine shot with the new widecam view (and amazing grass)… in addition to the following new information regarding the remaining 60% in development (on WENB’s frontpage):
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=52601&page=66
So we have:
Slow, simulation-like gameplay with an array of tactical options
Much more superior graphics up close and far
An apparently huge emphasis on animations
I guess we have all the ingredients of an absolute FIFA-killer in PES 2010…. the package is shaping up into a much more complete package than I had imagined…
TareX – agreed, everything’s shaping up very nicely this year…
I only have two worries that won’t be resolved until I get the game in October; the difficulty and the online mode. I am very optimistic about the gameplay.
Not-Greg, I’ve carefully read and analysed today’s titled, and as a result I do believe the lesson here is to never say ‘never say never,’ as that tends to make anything possible–which I guess is not completely far off the mark as far as you’re concerned
.
Looking forward to what you’ll have for us Monday. Take care.
And as if the game doesn’t already look good, here’s what’s planned for the remaining 40%:
- New visual filter not added yet, for more realism of shadows, lights, colors etc.. but it’s already great
- Official chants, better public reactions, balls impact
- A lot of new animations and better transitions and stars personal moves.
- New AI for goalkeeper, position, reflex for referee too.
- Tactics on freekick
- PK system not yet finish on the 60% version, better analogic control and effect on the ball
This could be indeed the triumphant return of the king….
Surfer Dude—I’m not a hardcore football gamer either, except in terms of hours put in. You’d probably be surprised to see how crudely I play the games—no tricks, and not much dribbling. The most I do is the old R2 stepover in PES. I’ve never done a trick in a game in FIFA—not even once!
I found PES2009 very playable too, but ultimately it just couldn’t stand up to daily play. I really did play the old PS2 games every day for their whole year of life. The quality of those games will always be my yardstick. I’m starting to wonder if this is realistic in a new gaming era, with so much competition, different hardware, etc. But I’ll still judge PES2010 by that standard.
Re. BaL and those numbers by your name, they’re the equivalent of your strategy buttons in a normal game (the L2+square, triangle, etc.*), except being employed by the virtual coach of your team. I think you should be able to check them in the game menu beforehand – not sure.
*if you’re one of the many PES players who’s never used strategy buttons or heard of them, I once wrote a post about them.
TareX—I saw that news hit yesterday and I’m officially all excited again.
Just the start of PSM3’s special follow-up article – “Slower. More painstaking. Less goals” – has me staring into space and daring to believe again.
Looking ahead, I think the first gameplay videos are bound to resemble PES2009, at least superficially, and that will kick off a BIG negative reaction. I’ll be waiting for the gameplay reports from people who’ve had hands-on.
Grilled Seabass—I hope that all the online players get the service you want this year, and let’s hope for all our sakes the single-player has PES3-PES5(ish) levels of satisfaction too. If PES2010 does deliver on all fronts, the jubilation will be unrestrained. I’m talking church bells ringing, across the world! (And the temple, gurdwara, and mosque etc. equivalents, of course.)
I love to think of the ‘PES2010 – great game’ scenario. I genuinely think it would make me deliriously happy.
Lovely. I’m installing the demo now. Such a great book.
Regarding PES on the Wii — if you play with the “classic controller,” all the controls are like the PS2 version. I’m playing it now, in fact.
I tried the pointer style, and like you gave it up for good after I couldn’t get the ball past the halfway line.
There is no reason whatsoever that teams don’t have personalities. I think what’s limited developers is that they’ve always tried to do it within the same interface we players have, and most football games don’t have that variety of play.
Again, you have to have an idea of what “perfect” play is as your starting point. A lot of football game AIs are very far from that ideal. I’m hopeful about the sliders — I thought they were genius when FIFA broke them out, and they are useful, but fell a bit short of their promise, IMO.
One thing FIFA lacks is the rabid editing community. If PES gets their sliders right, they’ll have the teams all wrong, but within a month fans will have sorted it out.
ck—hold the front/back page, Castel di Sangro are in the game (Football Manager 2009) but not playable. They need to be Edited in. I’m looking into it….
I got rid of the Wii in disgust and will never go back again, no, not even with the new add-on for the motion controller. As for old-school PES joy, I’ve got the PSP for that. Been on PES2008(PSP) just this morning—sublime, but we still need PES2010 to be something else, in every sense.
I did a little looking, and I guess they play in the Eccellenza Abruzzo league, which is apparently how you say “Blue Square Premiere” in Italian. They’ve dropped out of the Serie CB. You can edit FM? Eeeeeeenteresting.
I played around with the demo the other day and it’s a bit complex. I’m not sure at all what I’m doing, so I named my manager “Alan Shearer.”
ck—the Editor in FM2009 is built-in and accessible from the installation folder—but it’s not in the demo, unfortunately. Apparently in the full game it’s very simple to swap a non-league club into the game. I’ll be trying it today or tomorrow and will post a screenshot here if/when I’m successful. Also I might talk about it all in Wednesday’s post, along with PES2009(PSP).
re: Castel di Sangro, it’s very easy to swap them in for another club. I did with FC United a few years back.
Oh and not-greg, I actually gave the 3d engine another chance and… I love it!! The game I tried it on was a classic – I’ve taken a 3rd division club all the way to La Liga, and I played Real Madrid. Beat them 3-2 with a last minute goal in all its 3d glory!
I’ve also read that blog article on the PSM website and while its interesting there’s not enough about gameplay. I look forward to the Q&A session. (But why twitter? I hate twitter. Is it me or is it the most overhyped, non-technology?)
They say in the article that PES has the best ball physics, and I totally agree, thats one of the main reasons why I prefer PES. It really is that important to the feel of the game.
ck—success. The Editor in FN2009 is absurdly easy to use, and I’m up and running with Castel di Sangro. Screenshot of some in-game action. Bonomi is still at the club, along with other players from the book. (Still only half-way through it, so no spoilers please.) I only played this pre-season friendly. I want to finish the book first.
I put them in C2 and changed their status from Amateur to Professional. I left everything else untouched (like I said, they are already present in the database, complete with home stadium, finances, staff, players etc.—they’re just not playable without some jiggery-pokery.)
The FM Editor is a full-on independent application tucked away in the Sports Interactive installation folder. It’s not included in the demo, unfortunately. There’s a whole ‘Create Club’ option in the menu. Aylesbury Vale…? But if you’re totally new to the world of FM, it might be a tall order playing catch-up.
Grilled Seabass—yep, it took me all of 5 minutes last night to put Castel di Sangro in the game. It actually took longer to save the new database. I’m tired of playing everything as Coventry City, so this might spark me off again with FM.
The 3D match does its job well – glad you gave it another chance. Nothing amazing, but good enough IMO. I think a lot depends on the view used. I use the Behind Corner view as seen in the screenshot. I find the other views all less satisfactory for various reasons.
I pretty much skimmed the PSM3 blog to be honest. I join you in disliking Twitter. I tend to dislike anything ‘instant messagey’ or with a whiff of a chatroom. Ah well, Wednesday the 15th is nearly here…
I didn’t find the PSP PES09 gameplay much different from PES08, perhaps the defending has changed a bit. And the substitutions bug is really irritating (there’s no way round this, anyone know?) plus I find the game crashes too often. Still a great game though, I remember seeing a post on evo-web which made the case quite articulately that PSP is probably the most natural home for PES’s gameplay these days. I had a fantastic couple of ML seasons battling against relegation with Stoke, and also had a go on the BAL mode (this is new for PES09) which was quite impressive graphically and did feel a bit like playing real football – e.g. trying to work out where the ball is when defending goalmouth scrambles!
abbeyhill—today’s (Wednesday 15th July’s) post was due to be all about my PES2009(PSP) findings, but my FIFA09 gamesave went and got corrupted and I wanted to talk about that instead. I’ll put up the PSP post sometime next week now.
Broadly, though, my view of the game is the same as yours. I think it;s different enough from 08 to be interesting, but not different enough to warrant a full-price purchase. The shooting seems feather-light to me. I haven’t played it enough yet to have it crash on me. I’d be disturbed if that happened more than once or twice.
As for whether I’ll play PES2009(PSP) for any great length of time, I doubt it. I have other business to attend to on my PSP for the foreseeable future. Not just unfinished business on PES2008(PSP), but other games too that I really want to play. But never say never…