Xbox marks the spot
Yesterday morning I picked up a copy of the Xbox360 version of FIFA09. I’ve had a 360 for about a year now. (I got it mainly to play Bioshock. There aren’t many games worth buying consoles for, but Bioshock is one of them.)
FIFA09 feels like a different game on the Xbox360. Game developers always insist that PS3 and 360 versions of games are identical, apart from various items of downloadable content or whatever. In the case of FIFA09, I beg to differ.
I had the instant impression that the 360 FIFA09 is slower (on Normal speed) and its graphics are better. It’s possible both these impressions are false, because after a marathon online 360 session I had an experimental game on the PS3. I played a fixture in my Manager Mode (which I definitely will get around to talking about soon) and I couldn’t really tell the difference.
My big problem with FIFA09 over the past few days was the through-ball bug. It had annoyed me to the extent that I downgraded FIFA09 from my initial rating of ‘best game eva’. I did this in the form of a scientific graph, which I have decided will become a regular feature on the blog. Hopefully the graphs will illustrate that my opinions about games are always subject to change. My opinion on Day 1 is not necessarily going to be my opinion on Day 2, or Day 10, or Day 100.
Today’s graph shows the effect of an evening spent playing the Xbox360 version of FIFA09 online. (See fig. 1 below.) After a warm-up Exhibition game and trying to get used to playing football with the 360 controller (it didn’t feel right for ages), I leapt straight into a long session online.
It was one of the single best sessions of computer football gaming in my life. I played about 12 games all told. Some with 5-minute halves. Most with 10-minute halves. I played with and against teams of all skill ranges, from two-stars to five-stars, and all in between.
I was alternately humbled and exalted, lucky and unlucky, skilful and stupid. I discovered that, yes, I am a FIFA09 through-ball whore, and I’m ashamed of it (but will continue to do it).
I also noted that the through-ball bug was mysteriously absent. Although it always looks as if it’s trying to rear its ugly head in the 360 version, it doesn’t seem so bad. The players slow up slightly when receiving through-balls, but they don’t go into their infuriating little dances. So I wonder if the problem is confined to the PS3 and/or a problem just with offline play (with inferior teams and/or human players…)?
The main thing I took from my online session was that FIFA09 is simply a brilliant game. There’s no other word for it. And there’s one aspect of FIFA09 that has definitely changed. Individual players and whole teams now handle completely differently.
Diehard PES players may scoff, but FIFA09 has got real tactical depth. There’s complexity under the hood this year. One of the most stubborn popular beliefs about the new-style FIFA is that the gameplay is ruined in the long-term by all the teams and players feeling pretty much the same to play with. I’d say that there was lots of truth in that. Last season.
This season, it’s completely not true. Absolutely bogus. FIFA09 has superb player and team differentiation. In one game I was Coventry City and my opponent was Norwich City. The players were slow and ponderous on the ball. They tired quickly in the second half and the last third of the match was played at a mutual snail’s pace. It was a grim war of attrition at times.
That is what many PES veterans object to. It’s just no fun, they say, playing a football game that’s so realistic. You can see the same line cropping up again and again on forums everywhere. I saw it this morning on Channel 4’s teletext letters page, for God’s sake (p. 694). It’s one of the memes of FIFA09. It’s become the thing to say.
Well, I’m on the other side of that particular argument. Realism works for me. It’s what I want. It punches my ticket (is that a real saying or did I just make it up?).
Individuals in FIFA09 really shine on the pitch. And teams do too. In my last game last night I was Atletico Madrid, my opponent was Valencia. I’d heard a whisper on the forums that Atletico were a great team to play with, so I sneakily picked them, whilst cackling maniacally. And they are pretty good: ‘only’ a four-star team, but they handle like a top five-star team. I went 1-0 up after 15 minutes thanks to some speedy wingplay.
Then in the second half it all changed. My opponent brought on Morientes to play alongside David Villa. He changed his tactical sliders in the Formation screen to all-out attack. The difference was incredible. Suddenly, I couldn’t cope. I couldn’t get, or keep, the ball; he was attacking my goal for fun, stitching together moves and runs and having shots without any opposition. He got the equaliser. It was incredibly lifelike to see the second-half turnaround.
But my opponent made a mistake. He never changed his all-out attack posture back to something more balanced. No doubt he thought he could keep his momentum going and crush me….
I brought on two fresh players and changed my formation to 4-3-3. I needed to hold the ball up front. Midway through the second half I raced clear with one of my pacy subs, Pongolle I think, who left Valencia’s exhausted left back for dead. I scored. 2-1. And I got two more goals in exactly the same way: through-ball whoring with my fresh players, going up against his knackered defence. It was a lame victory in many ways. I was embarrassed to win 4-1 on the counter-attack, but that’s football.
It was the last game of my session. Two and a half hours. I had some trouble winding down before going to bed. Tactically FIFA09 is incredibly deep, whereas before (even last year) it didn’t feel very deep to me. Gameplay-wise, it’s rich and varied and realistic; it’s also fun, despite the doubters’ doubts. And this morning I discover that EA have fixed the problem of PS3 replays not uploading to that accursed website.
Now, if they can just fix that PS3 through-ball bug….
Greg
I’ve said from the demo and even commented on the forums which I rarely do that the speed of the gameplay is indeed slower on the 360. I play on slow, my preferred setting.
Is online speed NORMAL?
A through ball whore r u?
I can’t believe peoples comments that all the teams and players are the same, one word BOLLOCKS. I have played roughly 60 games over both consoles with a whole range of teams from 1 to 5 stars and the difference is instantly recognizable.
The tactic sliders can be used to devastating effect.
The game just gets better and better with each play and yes realism works for me too. The time and effort put into learning the game is worthwhile.
PS couldn’t stop laughing at the latest WENB podcast last night and for comical value it’s worth a listen.
‘Under the hood’……
Surely you mean; under the bonnet.
I am glad you’re enjoying online play, for me there is no comparison. Pitting yourself against another human (or Frenchman [!]) is a wonderful feeling.
I don’t know who said PES isn’t life like due to each team being the same. I’m using PES6 PC format, and when my Wigan Athletic team come up against Barca, the difference is phenomenal. Heskey is a useless lump who tries to hold up the ball and ends up on his big fat backside. When he DOES eventually have a shot (after about 5 games) it ends up in row Z.
It’s fantastically real. Latics are slow and the defenders have to get it right first tima against the Barca forwards, ‘cos there’s no WAY they can catch them up if they’re beaten.
Chris Kirkland flaps at corners, Gary Teale couldn’t tackle a fish supper and Henri Camara spits out his dummy and throws a paddy when I substitute him.
It’s incredibly realistic.
Having said that, last night I managed to beat someone who had chosen Brazil. 1-0. A Heskey screamer from 35 yards…..
heraldo - I think online play defaults to Normal whatever the individual players’ settings. Not too sure though. I’ve seen people claiming to have played on Fast and Slow, so I don’t know.
I haven’t seen the ‘all players and teams are the same’ comment quite so much this year, to be fair. But it is still out there.
FIFA was for a decade the inverse benchmark by which we measured PES’s quality. Old thinking habits die hard. Hell, I’m abotu as pro-FIFA as they come nowadays and I still kind of think that liking FIFA is something that needs to be justified/apologised for!
If PES2009 turns out to be any good, I’m only going to get more confused. As will the wider football gaming world.
Big Al – I reserve the right to deploy American English versions of common expressions for their added rhetorical effect and decorative weight. It’s a style thing with me. I never, ever use them in speech, though. That kind of thing is for local radio DJs.
And who said that PES wasn’t lifelike? I think you’ve misread the post – ? In the post I said that people generally said FIFA (08 and now 09) wasn’t lifelike, due to the teams & players all feeling the same. I would argue that this has changed now, and FIFA09 is more like PES of old, where you just know what team you’re playing with and what its players can do.
You guys are dedicated to buy the same game for both consoles! I love my PS3 too much now. I see THE glitch less because I don’t play through balls that often. My style of play has always been heavily influenced on wing play. So Vicente or Joaquin are always bombing (trying to anyway) down the wings getting crosses into the box.
Last match was incredible, David Villa scored 4 goals before half time. Ended up beating Villareal 1-5. For some reason though the mighty Mallorca (???) are riding high at the top of the league- 8 points clear….
Not Given – I’m not in favour of buying the same game across multiple platforms, but it didn’t cost me much (a fiver after some trade-ins at Game). And I fancied the Achievements and the better online service.
I’m starting another MM career today, with Atletico Madrid. I thought they were excellent when playing with them online last night. With PES2009 and a probable Master League looming up ahead, it’s probably best not to have 2 separate MM careers going on on different consoles, but there’s no guarantee PES2009 will take me away from FIFA09. The bird in the hand and all that…
I think the WENB podcast is a MUST listen to Greg (and everyone else) – even those muppets Suff and Adam cannot deny reality – FIFA09 is streets ahead of PES, moreover PES is not making any real progress – they even admit it now!
I made the same comment on WENB’s forums and got banned – they are so thin skinned it’s untrue – but then WENB is basically a PES PR site IMHO. by the way are XBOX360s relatively stable these days – thinking of possibly buying one.
Kiwanis – I used to feel quite charitable towards WENB’s editorial stance against any criticism of PES. They’re a fansite with very useful (and potentially very lucrative) links to Konami. I think they’re entitled to protect their interests and secure their site’s future. But I don’t think even the most rabid Konami PR man would object to them hosting some debate about PES and its future and comparisons with FIFA. They do seem to clamp down on it very quickly, something I noticed towards the end on their old public forum. I haven’t joined their new forum.
Looking forward to the podcast later. I still think these podcasts are great listens. I wonder how consciously Suff plays good cop to Adam’s bad cop…?
Xbox360s and reliability – it depends who you speak to. I’ve had mine a year and it’s still OK – touch wood – but it hasn’t seen much use. You read horror stories about people sending theirs off for repair 4 times.
I remember asking the guy in the store about reliability the day I bought it. He said it was pot luck really. I think there’s about a 33% chance that a 360 will fail within its three-year warranty span. Those aren’t comfortable odds, but they are in your favour.
But for the RROD issue, the 360 would have already won the so-called ‘console war’ and the PS3 would likely have gone the way of the Dreamcast.
I don’t think an XBOX is worth it if you have PS3. Mines just broke though so I am biased, but I just love my PS3 (and the ps2 backcatalog) too much!
So glad FIFA has games like this in it. Playing away to Bilbao- one of my favorite teams. Need the 3 points to stay in the title race (dropped to 3rd behind barca and mallorca). It was a scrappy realistic game. Scored in the 26th minute and the rest of the game I barely got a chance. After 50 mins I went defensive and just tried to grind the game out. In the last 15 minutes they put me under enormous pressure and my players looked nervous (I play too much….), they send everyone up on the 90th minute and I hit them on the break and score the 2nd with the substitute. A very realistic game that I am happy to win..
Not Given – at the time I got mine I was still a heavy-duty general gamer, and there were still loads of exclusives for the 360 that I couldn’t play on my PS3. Bioshock, Halo3, Command and Conquer, Mass Effect… There still are some exclusives.
Good to hear you’re getting the immersion factor from Manager Mode. I forget that you never played FIFA08.
heraldo & Kiwanis – I just listened to the latest WENB podcast.
I actually thought they were both very fair to FIFA09. Suff in particular plainly loves the game – “the best football game I’ve played for years”.
I was braced for Adam to be at his absolute worst, but he put the case very well for why he preferred the more arcadey PES over the simulation FIFA. I disagree with him. I think that simulation IS the way to go in order for football games to evolve. But all in all I think this podcast was a great summary of the real situation at the moment between the two games and the two sets of fans. Or three sets of fans if you include the ones, like me, who would like to play and enjoy both of them on each of their merits.
Adam’s position is a point of view that loads of PES players share – the PES forum at Evoweb is a stronghold for that kind of view. The ones who are wilfully ignorant and think FIFA09 is the same as FIFA99 (for example) are the ones to watch out for. There’s no redeeming them…
Greg
I was referring to his (Adams) pathetic constant justification of PES is better. I am cool with that, each to their own preference. Bringing a 14 year nephew in as an argument over which is better, what was that all about?
It always seemed to be PES was the conniseurs choice of football game, now with FIFA bringing a true simulation to the table over the past year with the 3 installments. PES was never like this (his words) not the PES I and many others remember.
I thought he was a joke on the podcast, he seems to suffocate Suff’s enthusiasm IMO. Suff questioned Adam’s comments “you have to force yourself to play football in FIFA”. Is that not what football is? To say he’s can’t be a Messi in FIFA (WELL KEEP YOUR BLOODY FINGERS OFF THE SPRINT BUTTON). I can dribble with any player, I can’t recall in my playing days being able to turn whilst running at full speed.
Yes he said FIFA was “excellent” but it’s his follow up remarks. Suff I have no problem with, I’ve emailed him a couple of times and he assured me how good FIFA was before the demo. Adam to me is a voice that likes to be heard IMO.
I played PES like many for the simulation it provided in the past. It was a remarkable game but times and technology haved move on.
It just seems strange that FIFA is too realistic NOW. As when PES was in it’s prime it was COOL. If I am being honest I can’t be arsed with all the bickering over a COMPUTER GAME.
I will play the one that gives me the most enjoyment (I cherish my free time), I owe no loyalty to Konami. They have produced a sub-standard product for years and continue with a last-gen engine in more powerful consoles. They will be left behind as they CANNOT provide a new engine in a year as Adam keeps referring. What have they shown since current-gen (not next-gen) arrived? Not very much, the game requires a major overhaul, which will take longer than a year. As Adam said they have took the easy and safe option in 2009.
Sorry for the rant but IMO the guy talks shite.
heraldo – that’s it, you’re not going to the WENB Christmas party
For my part I was expecting the podcast to be the absolute pits, but was pleasantly surprised ‘only’ to hear Adam trotting out the same argument that has become the ‘thing to say’ in the FIFA vs. PES debate (as I touch upon in the blog post).
I don’t agree with the ‘fun’ argument. I’d argue against the concept of fun even applying to most games. It could apply to Dance Dance Guitar Hero 10 or whatever, but to other types of games? I don’t really think so. There are many kinds of fun.
Is a favourite film that you enjoy watching more than any other ‘fun’ to watch? The concept of fun doesn’t really fit with films and I don’t think it fits with games either. Was Bioshock, one of the greatest games ever, ‘fun’ for me to play? It was magnificent and dazzling and dramatic and terrifying and truly shocking at times – but fun? No, the word and concept fun just doesn’t fit properly with games.
The ‘PES is about fun’ argument is out there now, in the wild, on a dozen forums across the internet, and it’s not going to go away.
What I liked about the podcast was that it now seems clear that the argument about new-style FIFA is over, and we’ve moved into a new reality. Even Adam said that PES2009 has really got to be the last old-style PES game, or else. PES has got to catch up – and as the boys say, that won’t be until 2010 now.
^ and I agree completely. Just listened to that podcast for only the second time ever. He was moaning about not being able to wonder dribble any where on the pitch with the best players, and the fact that you have to work hard in FIFA. It must be awful that he now must practice and learn during a game instead of holding the sprint button and dribbling around the entire opposition..
That arrow was to Heraldos post haha.
Yes I agree though, I want FIFA to be hard work throughout the year. It sounds crazy but I like the game giving me a beating…
Not Given – I just thought when Adam complained about having to pass and move and not being able to dribble in FIFA09 that it was a great positive for the game. Granted he mentioned them to moan about them….
He said that it grated on him having to play football in a football game, and that he prefers just picking up PES and dribbling through the field. Adam sounds like just the type of person that ruined PES online all last year. Also in years gone by, you DID have to pass and move in PES, but suddenly he doesn’t like this anymore when FIFA implements it.
It sounds like he just plays PES as a relaxing game to carve through opponents with the ‘big’ players- and theres nothing wrong with it, if that’s what he likes. But I would think the majority are looking for an indepth football game that will keep them entertained AND challenge them all year long.
Not Given – Yes, which is why I think simulation is the way to go and is the true ‘evolution’ for football games. Arcade handling is pretty retro by comparison. PES2009 should be the last arcade console football game, and yes, you might as well just glue down that sprint button online…
I think Suff’s role in this podcast was very intriguing. I suppose we’ll just have to wait for the forthcoming FSB podcast (which he’ll be on) to find out what he thinks in full about FIFA09.
I think I am one of those sick people who would like FIFA or PES to be a complete simulation. I would love 45 minute each way halves, with slow gameplay. I mean real football slow, and games were using the long ball gives many teams advantages. No dribbling around Arsenal with Bolton.
I think Euro 2008 was getting there (as was 08 from what you tell me). I can’t believe I could play 45 minute each way in FIFA World Cup 98 all those years ago, but can’t now…
not Greg and other’s – I think Suff is OK but Adam is a PES fanboy in the worse sense of the term. As people have pointed out he was moaning about not being able to sprint his way to victory…and then praised PES for being a “pick up and play game”…WTF? Did we (PES fans) not use to rip FIFA to shreads for being a pick up and play game and ALWAYS praise PES for it’s DEPTH? And in Adam’s mind it is, all of a sudden, a plus point that PES lacks depth. Talk about cognitive dissonance/sophistry.
Another thing that bothered me on the WENB podcast was Adam saying he regretted giving PES2008 an 8/10 rating….try 1/10 on the PS3…I still recall ALL of their BS about seeing a “better” version of PES2008 at Leipzig last year, which as far as anyone could tell was a TOTAL lie.
And when people in the community call them on this BS (on forums such as Evo-web) they run off and refuse to face the music. Oh and the forums on WENB are like some sort of Soviet-style propaganda machine for Konami….I posted the observation that FIFA09 has sold around 37% more when compared to FIFA08 at this stage and that this was a good thing as Konami needs to raise it’s game massively and if FIFA09 outsells PES2009 then they might just do what is required….guess what? My first and only forum post resulted in a ban? Suff and Adam – the Lenin and Stalin of the PES community.
OK rant over. If anyone thinks the PES2009 demo is better than FIFA09 then that’s their own personal view…I’d only ask if they could tell me what drugs they are on cause it has to be some really good shit
Kiwanis – the contradictions about sim/arcade styles that’s at the heart of some PES fans’ statements is amazing to see, and often amazing how they fail to see it (or try to justify it if they do).
I always remember looking at old FIFAs with scorn, and absolutely treasuring the more simulation type of game that PES offered me. Didn’t we all? Now FIFA has leapfrogged PES in that respect, which even the most die-hard PES fans are now admitting, we can see how ideology moulds perceptions.
re. the regime on WENB’s forums, I saw on their old public forums that it was starting to get a little heavy-handed IMO. I seriously doubt anybody at Konami would want them to ban all negative forum comments, so I’d say they’ve taken this tack on their own initiative.
And re. PES2009 – I still want it to be a good PES game. I’ll ask no more of it this year.
I love your blog and I’ve been following your posts on an hourly basis ever since I discovered it around a month ago….
I have a suggestion for you.
Instead of contemplating in writing on how “amazing”, “incredibly deep” FIFA09 is, why don’t you HQ film an entire game you had online, and post the movie for download?
Seriously, because your argument is very compelling, and yet I can’t see the depth you describe in the FIFA09 movies. 99% of the time the goal is through a through-pass that brings a player one on one, or a keeper rebound. I’d love to see a full match played between two good players and feel the emotions you’re feeling.
I left FIFA in 2005 when PES4 was out. It was a life changing decision. Yeah that’s how big a change it was. Now, I look at FIFA and I see players that move with too much speed and flexibility. They all move with the ball like they are Ronaldos. They have no momentum if they decide to turn, and the ball can be passes in a 180 degree direction while running. Players collide excessively and don’t see to even try to avoid bumping into each other, or losing the ball.
So please how about a nice 10-min HQ online video to buy me back to the FIFA clan?
Thanks
TareX – you make some interesting points about FIFA09’s (and to a lesser extent 08’s) gameplay as it must appear when seen from outside. I suppose the only thing I can say is that you have to play it to experience it. Even then you still might not think it’s any good—there are plenty of people who dislike new-style FIFA’s gameplay on its own terms.
I’m a bit puzzled about your comments re. the players’ smooth movements and nimbleness – you are talking about the PS3/360 FIFA, yes? The usual complaint about the players in those versions of the game is that they’re too luimbering and slow to turn.
I’ve often thought about filming a full match between me and the CPU (on PES and on FIFA) and posting it, but I haven’t got a DVD recorder or a camcorder. I’m ’sure, though, that there must be somewhere on the internet hosting footage of a full game on FIFA09.
The goals you’ve seen will pretty much tend to come from dinked through-balls, rebounds, goalmouth scrambles etc. There are precious few distance strikes as in PES—particularly in FIFA09 (for me at the moment anyway). This is, of course, in keeping with the real game.
I once looked up the statistics from the Premier League out of curiosity. On an average weekend only about 2% of goals are scored from outside the box. This all goes back to the realism vs fun argument currently raging on several fronts across the internet.
I appreciate it may be a little wearying constantly reading me gushing about FIFA09, but I really am that enthused about it at the moment. I love the direction that EA—the former Darth Vader of football games developers—has taken with FIFA.
Having said all that I am really starting to look forward to PES2009. And don’t worry. I’ll be giving it more than a fair crack of the whip. I have left the title of this blog as PES Chronicles for a reason…
No no don’t give PES2009 more than what it will deserve… FIFA09 has immensely improved and deserved every word it received here, on a PES blog.