All your Basel
Posted by: not-Greg in D1 Cup, European Cup (ECC), FIFA08, league table, pes2008, tags: Division 1 Cup, European Cup (ECC), FIFA08, league table, pes2008“Familiarity breeds contempt.” True. Its corollary statement, “Absence makes the heart grow fonder”, is true too. After a break of two days (spent playing FIFA08, with great enjoyment), I resumed my Master League career on PES2008 with pleasure.
At first I was slightly taken aback—again—by the relative pace of PES. This is something that has been apparent to me all year. PES is just too fast now. Even though I’d only been away for two days, the difference in gameplay speed between PES and FIFA is massive. FIFA08 now seems to me to be the ‘natural’ speed for a football video game. Perhaps it could do with being a tad faster (UEFA2008—6% faster than FIFA08—is about right), but it’s still in the general area where a football game ought to be.
The first few minutes of my first game back on PES2008 were spent wondering how I, or anyone, could ever have regarded this fast-forwarded football game as being anything but farcical. But I soon re-adjusted. It didn’t take long before my uneasy sensation was replaced by absorption, and enjoyment. PES gameplay—its core elements, set apart from surface details like graphics, speed, and presentation—has never been bettered, in my opinion. FIFA08 is a great effort, but my dream football game would still marry FIFA08-style pace and graphics and features with PES gameplay. (Could the two ever go together? EA are certainly giving it their best shot…)
I came up against Basel, one of this season’s newly-promoted teams, in the Division 1 Cup. The supposedly ‘little’ teams can be the toughest opponents out there. The big guns just can’t match them in terms of sheer annoyance. True to form, Basel held me at bay for most of a sterile encounter with few chances on either side. I did score about 15 minutes from the end to make it 1-0 to me. I was playing at home, and I thought: great, I’ve got a goal and kept a clean sheet. Job done!… And so naturally they scored with mere seconds remaining.
A 1-1 result at home in the Cup is a pretty bad result. You have to score in the away leg, and any PES fan will know that this makes for a very nervy game. If the AI turns up in a certain kind of mood, you could play all day and not score a goal, and that’s you out of the Cup. I find it best to approach such games calmly and methodically—not going all-out for an early goal to settle the nerves, but just telling myself it’d be really nice to get one before half time… In most cases this attitude works.
It worked this time too. I thumped Basel 0-5, making the final aggregate score 1-6 to me. I came out of this game straight into a league match against the same team. Basel again, at their place again. I beat them this time as well: it ended 0-3 this time, although I could have had 10.
I went straight into the final game of the group stage in the European Championships. My opponents (I nearly typed ‘enemy‘ just then) were Sochaux, another one of the tricky, maddening, supernaturally lucky ‘minnows’ in my Master League setup. They’ve punished me badly several times before now. I hate them. I hate them more than I hate Osasuna, and that’s saying something.
But the break from PES has done me a lot of good. I’m playing with focus and relish—the two magic ingredients of any great game. I thumped Sochaux 4-0 and guaranteed my progression to the knockout stages. I’m still in both Cups and I’m in the top 3 in the league table, albeit still 10 points behind the leaders, Valencia. Another Treble is still on, but I haven’t got much wiggle room in the league.
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Have you had any chances to try the R2 button?;-)
Adriano - lol, not yet, the blog is a few days behind where I am in real-time. I’ll be discussing it further in a few days but sneak preview: I have indeed had a go with various uses of R2 - notably the finesse shot, which I last tried out a couple of years ago. Results there were pretty good and—if I can remember to!—I’ll go on using it. Defensively I do occasionally use the R2 ‘block-and-shepherd’ method anyway. To defend AI corners and free kicks I’ve found it no use. There’s a lot more to say.
I am thinking of doing a special kind of post on control methods in PES now and down the years, focusing on all those things I and others never or rarely use, or don’t even know about. One of my mates at work has been playing ISS/PES for a while longer than me (he dates back to the N64 days)—-and he had never heard of the ATT/DEF level control until I told him about it a year ago! You might think my neglect of R2 is bad, but at least I’d heard of it… “So what did you think those coloured lozenges that moved up and down were for?” I asked him. He just shrugged. He’d barely noticed them.
Greg
I have mentioned before, the R2 shot is one of my favourites. Running parallel to the box, you can curl in some crackers.
The L1 chip shot is another, so sweet when you pull these off.
As you say, everyone plays the game differently, and get varying satisfaction from games. I could never score the amount of goals ADRIANO has with his striker 507 goals. I have always played the game with a base from a rock solid defence, this is where I am disappointed with this years version, as the defence AI is shocking. When I play my mates, I would rather keep a clean sheet than a goal fest. That’s my prefered way of playing.
Your mate didn’t even notice the att/def levels? That’s a new one
Good, I’m glad to hear you can actually teach an old dog new tricks.;)
The finesse shot is king when finishing inside the penalty box. But it also does wonders from just outside the box, making for beautiful curled shots.
The secret to defending corners with R2 is to position your defender right in front of the nearest opposition player, and then when the corner’s taken, hold R2 and press square. Your defender will automatically make a run to intercept the ball. The same procedure works while attacking.
This old dog is learning new tricks too. I already knew about super-cancelling shots and crosses, but I never used that much, but I’m making it a point to go into the training practice menu now and then to try out new moves. So I’m finding out that the fake shot is very effective at losing defenders and, best of all, the goalie. When you’re 1-on-1 with the keeper, just press square and then super-cancel (it works best if you press the d-pad diagonally). The goalie and any defenders in the vicinities will go down, leaving a clear path to goal. You can actually humiliate the opposition by faking a few shots and scoring. Great for when you’re up against human players.
You can also use it while making a run down the wings to lose a defender running along. Very useful.
The ATT/DEF level control is something I use all the time. I’m constantly pressing L2 + R1 to keep my players up the field to pressure the opposition.
I just started another alternate Super ML, and I’m going to try and stick with average or slightly above average players. I’m just starting the second season, and I’ve finally gotten rid of most of the original squad donkeys. They “helped” me finish 8th (which means LAST) in the first season. After playing with my super team for so long, it was really hard to get used to playing with Minanda and the like.
To make this post even longer, I’m going to go ahead and list my current starting XI (don’t laugh), which is:
Wood GK, Vanden Borre RB, Palmieri CB, Kobayashi CB, Balzaretti LB, Van Den Berg DMF, Ayhan Akman DMF, Noushevar LMF, Herrero RMF, Gibson CF, Gutierrez CF.
heraldo,
Correction: 635 goals.
heraldo - I used to score dozens of goals every season with the L1 chip (in PES4). Never managed to consistently ‘ace’ it in any version since. Re. this year’s versions (both, last- and next-gen) having poor defence AI - I think the attacking AI is too souped up in both cases. That’s something the WENB podcast touched on - the way the game has moved more and more toward the attacking side over the past few years.
Adriano - so you’ve restarted?! I hope you’ve kept your old save - you were nearly past me.
Thanks for the tips about R2 at corners - duly noted. I’ll report back when I get a chance to use it. I’ve just hopped my career back over to the PSP - which lacks an R2 button of course… There might be an alternative to R2. Triangle+Circle is the Supercancel on the PSP - they might have come up with something similar to stand in for R2. I’ll have to reread the manual.
My workmate had not only never heard of or noticed the ATT/DEF levels in PES, he had never bothered to select his players according to form arrows and fitness etc. I could understand that in PES you have to tap R1 to show the form arrows, so it’d be easy to overlook them. But in most of the early ISS games the players’ form and general condition was represented by giant colourful bouncing heads next to their names. It was not possible to avoid them. So he’d just ignored them instead!
ADRIANO
Sorry mate, it was 507 last week. 128 goals in a week?
Your target must be to beat the legend PELE’s goal tally of 1100+
I ‘m still playing the Kim Cyun Hi save. I’ll keep playing it until he scores 1000 goals or until he retires.
I get bored every now and then, and start a new ML just to get annoyed with Minanda & Co.
heraldo,
I played a full season plus pre-season friendlies last weekend. Kim only sat out a couple of games. He scored 57 times in the league, plus something like 24 in the European League and 14 in the D1 Cup. The team scored 110 goals to 12 conceded in the league. It was my highest scoring season. Of course, as I’ve been doing for a while in this particular ML, I filled the off-season with friendly matches. It’s good for your players’ development, and great for KCH’s scoring ranking.
Greg
Yeah, Seabass changed the attacking emphasis after the last world cup, for me it’s for the worse. As I have said, I enjoy building my teams from a watertight defence. Maybe that should be my challenge in this ML, I will get round to writing that article which sent me over the edge. I am starting to chill out, I might go back to it this week.
It took me a while to get back into the L1 chip shot, I pull it off regularly now. The other one is square and x, side-stepping the goalie, although the defenders and goalies go to ground too easily, that feels like cheating, to be honest.
Adriano
That’s some going mate. What’s your typical scores? I have never had KCH in my ML, I am in season 2011 and he hasn’t appeared. The other guy I would like to sign, is KAISER he hasn’t appeared either.
Although my midfield is really strong at present, I probably don’t need KAISER, just heard so much about him and BEN SAHAR is a god up front. I have a squad of 26, but to be honest that is probably too big, as I use about 16/18 players max.
I rarely play over 5/6 seasons, by this stage the players are monsters and the game becomes too easy.
Adriano - I don’t think I’m ever going to match your expolits with Kim Cyun Hi. It really does come down to style of play, I think. Another sneak preview of the next week or so: Kim still isn’t doing it for me. He’s not bad, but he’s not anywhere near the goalscoring prowess of your Kim Cyun Hi. Could there be a random generator-type thing for players in each individual ML? You should get him again when you can in your new ML and see if he turns out the same!
heraldo - Kim popped up for me in around 2013, I think. It’s a shame you stop an ML after 4/5 seasons. For me the pleasure of going on and on (and on) comes from two things - 1) The game almost always remains challenging for me, no matter how massive my players get. My self-declared averageness helps me here. Not being able to do this on next-gen PES2008, on account of it being so ridiculously easy, was the main reason I ended up hating it. And 2) I love the epic story of a Master League that just goes on and on (and on). I love looking back after 15 seasons or 30 seasons and remembering how it all went, where it began, etc. etc.
Also I do recommend playing both games - FIFA and PES. Swapping around does have its drawbacks. The changeover from one to the other is awkward sometimes. But it really does increase the pleasure from both games - you see what’s great about both games much more than you see what’s poor. I didn’t play FIFA for a few months once I got the PSP/PS2 PES2008, and I really regret it.
heraldo,
I have come to a point in this particular ML where all my players are monsters, as you say, so scorelines are never 0-0, I can always score at least once each game, but it usually is much more than that. There are plenty of 4-0 and 5-0 every season, with a 7-0 here and there. Of course I do concede goals too, but it’s rarely more than 1 or 2 with this team. I suppose most other players would have either restarted by now or established house rules, but I really want to get Kim up to 1000 goals, just to see if it’s possible.
I have Kaiser in that same team, and he’s massive, though Bradley vastly outplays him in defense, and shoots a lot better too. I like Camacho a bit better than Kaiser in the CMF position, even though Kaiser’s stats are better.
Merino is another great CMF if you come across him. Oh, and Machado too, though he’s in a slightly lower level.
I have Ben Sahar in my alternate ML, and he’s pretty good.
not-Greg,
I think there might be differences in the growth of a particular player in different regenerations, but I’m not sure. I suppose my Kim turned out so great because he really fits my style of play or because I played him constantly since he appeared.
I was checking my team information from past seasons, and I got him in my first season while still in D2, and he got straight into the starting XI, scoring a few goals in his first season, and getting the top scoring position in his second.
I think you should stick with him until he peaks, which will take at least a couple more seasons. How old is he in your ML currently?
Greg
I am back playing both games, as from today. I finally got round to writing that article on that infamous match.
Being a fanboy, PES always pulls me back to it.
Adriano
I have a midfield quartet of
Camacho, Prieto, Braddley and Gambino
I have switched Mathieu to left back, Sakho from LB to CB. I want to shore up the defence after a shocking cup result. Their will be no sentiment to past ML favourites, Best XI from now on.
Adriano - Kim Cyun Hi is 21 years old currently (in 2017). He definitely appeared for me in 2013 - I just checked.
I also checked his development chart. According to that, he actually peaked last season and is going along on the level right now.
Of course those charts can be misleading. I remember exceeding them with many players. Kim is playing every game that he physically can this season and if he’s going to ‘take off’ for me, this is the season when he should do it - he’s at his peak and he’s playing all the time in his prime position.
In some ways, I kind of hope he doesn’t take off for me now. Let me explain - if he doesn’t turn out to be the uber-player for me that he is for you, it means that PES has even greater depth, and our individual playing styles can shape the outcome of individual players’ careers. It’d mean that it’s not a simple mathematical certainty that if you get player X then you’ll get result Y. It’d be much more fluid, and dependent on so many other factors. I think that’s how this is going to go. Kim could still catch fire for me but my playing style is limiting his chance to shine.
heraldo,
That’s wicked midfield lineup. I have all those players in my ML too, though my current midfield is Bradley, Kaiser and Khumalo, Prieto is playing in his second position as LB, while Camacho and Gambino are on the bench, though making consistent appearances in the starting XI.
not-Greg,
I do think that players develop different depending on how you play them, and they gain points on their stats reflecting what they did during their playing time.
If you take a lot of shots during a match, the player will gain stat points in the respective abilities. I believe that if you get a CF and field him always as a CB, he will develop differently.
So there you go, that might explain some of the discrepancies you’ve been experiencing. But then again it might be just a matter of the virtual player suiting the human player’s style of play.