If Shimizu had strength…
Posted by: not-Greg in European Masters Cup, Kim Cyun Hi, Shimizu, tags: European Masters Cup, Kim Cyun Hi, ShimizuQuite often in PES when you’re in a delicate position in the league, the performances of other teams around you will exactly mirror your own. If you win, they win; if you draw, they draw; if you lose, they lose. This is most noticeable when you’re top of the league by two points (for example) and then you lose and draw several key games—but somehow you remain top of the league by two points. Because, fortunately, the team(s) below you lost and drew those games as well…
It’s only because of this phenomenon that I’m still top of the league at the moment. The 5 games I’ve played since the mid-season negotiations have all gone poorly. Won 1, Drawn 1, Lost 3. I have no idea what I’m suddenly doing wrong.
I think the mid-season break simulates an interruption of momentum. In real life a team can be flying along and winning games for fun. One weekend there’ll be a break for International games, and when regular league play resumes that same all-conquering team suddenly finds itself barely able to string two passes together. Something like this effect, I think, is present in PES. Also the addition of new players (even just two new players) to a squad can dilute the team work equation.
Or (and this is probably the real reason) I’ve just got complacent on the back of my steady pre-mid-season form. That’s happened to me too often in PES for me to recount. A sudden drop-off of form when I unconsciously assume a foregone conclusion (the Title is mine!) has often left me trophyless at the end of the season. I must not let that happen this time.
I’ve played the first leg in the Quarter-Final of the WEFA Masters Cup—a nice bonus after being knocked out of the WEFA Championships. I’m taking the competition seriously, fielding my best players when possible. In truth this isn’t hard to do—my squad is pretty strong. There aren’t any real bench-warmers in it, apart from the still untested 17-year-old Shevchenko. His time will come.
Speaking of young players: Kim Cyun Hi seems to like the Masters Cup. He scored two goals in both legs of the Quarter Final (against Rangers), helping me on my way to a 6-1 aggregate victory. I’m sorely tempted to start playing Kim Cyun Hi from the start in as many games as possible. I took a look at his stats the other day, and had to go for a lie-down afterward. I’ve never seen anything like it. Most young players take seven seasons to get the kind of growth that Kim has shown in less than two seasons. At the moment I’m strongly reminded of Shimizu at his peak—albeit a Shimizu with actual strength. Kim Cyun Hi should outstrip Shimizu with ease. He’s already got several stats in the red and high yellow zones—at the age of 19. This kid is seriously going places.
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I’m looking forward to seeing what Khumalo and Kim Cyun Hi can do. Right now, I’ve had both players for a season, and neither are quite good enough yet to get a look in to the starting eleven. In fact, their not particularly impressive at this stage, but I can see from their growth line that it is only a matter of time.
So far, I give this game about . . . eh . . . 6.5 out of 10. One of the cheap ways they’ve been keeping the game tough over the last few iterations is by gelding players’ individual technique. I’ve got guys with 90+ Technique abilities who can’t take a pass without knocking it five to ten meters away from themselves. And they’re the good ones!
I feel like this game does a good job of modeling lower-division football, but not so much as far as world elites. In fact, the general level of technique in American next-gen 08 is on a par with the MLS. I hold season tickets for the Kansas City Wizards, and my (ostensibly elite) players control and move the ball about as well as the (quite definitely third-rate) Wiz do.
The passing issues are compounded by what you’d called the “pregnant pause,” another down-grading of individuals that has become more pronounced. Players get the ball, pause, change direction slightly, pause, change direction again, pause, then start to run. In the meantime, the defense has (of course) closed them down.
I’ve been able to open defenses up with Route 1 balls, but not along the ground, and for me, that’s a disappointment.
Further, I’ve noticed that for games, let’s say 1-35, the opponents practically *teleport* to you, they close you down so quickly. When you score, they go ballistic and push forward aggressively. Then, all of a sudden, for games 36-50, they just . . . stop. And while I had been getting draws and losses, now I am getting wins.
Trust me, I didn’t “figure anything out.” The CPU players just stopped over-running me, and started letting me play a bit. Suddenly, when I score, they don’t go all god mode on me. I think it’s some factor relating to teamwork and popularity, but who knows.
It is a shame, though, and of course, like all PES fans, I’m hoping it gets sorted.
I haven’t tried my last-gen discs on the PS3 yet, but I can already tell you that last-gen PES08 was the better of the games (although you knew that).
Still, despite my complaints, the game *is* still fun, and it isn’t nearly as technically effed up as the European release was. If (when?) I score my first stupid wonder dribble goal, I’ll be sure to ping you, but I haven’t seen hide nor hair of it so far.
ck - We’ve both come at next-gen PES2008 from different angles: me pre-last-gen, you post-last-gen. I wonder how that could shape different experiences of the game. Also, you’ve been exposed over the past 6 months to lots of negativity about the PS3 game on PESfan and the internet in general and, latterly, here in particular.
There is a lot of things to enjoy in next-gen PES2008 and I’m sure you’ll discover them. Sadly, yes, the little tricks that Seabass & co. love to indulge themselves in to level things out between human and AI are very much unashamed and in-your-face. But they’ve been in PES for at least PES4 and onward. They’ve really got to sort it out.
Re. the ‘wonder dribble’, if you’ve historically played PES anything like the way I have, then you might be a more pass ‘n’ move type of player, and rarely try to beat lots of players. That was why it took me ages to discover that in next-gen PES2008 dribbling past players is the easiest thing ever. Most players in the game are capable of going on a straightforward run-at-goal dribble. But with some players you can run in circles and elaborate figure-eights and loop-the-loops before sticking the ball into the net—on Top Player difficulty, against any opposition. A shame, and possibly the major reason why I took against the game.
Have you downloaded and played the UEFA2008 demo from PSN yet? I have and I was suitably impressed and intrigued to see what it portends for FIFA09. (There’s no way I’d ever buy UEFA2008. I need club football in a football game.)
It’s probably wishful thinking but I have a crazy feeling that PES2009 is going to be a great PES game. As I’ve said a few times now, I’d be happy with last-gen-style PES with HD graphics. I’d still be happy with that, but I suspect it’ll be a bit more than that. I don’t know why I think it. Seabass & co. have probably not had enough time to implement the kind of major game-engine-changing overhaul that EA did with their franchise. I think next-gen PS2008 was a failed attempt at that in-depth overhaul. I think they were working away on it and started to run out of time and just had to go with what they had and publish in a panicky haste. Seabass is on record as saying he considered delaying the game.
I for one would of accepted a delayed game if it meant they had been able to ‘iron-out’ some of the issues the game has.
What you have to consider is, how well do they play-test their games?
From the well known cut-backs of PES6 to the wonder dribble of PES2008 it would suggest not very well at all. Per chance this is where they are let down?
Paww - if we were to hear now that PES2009 won’t be out until January 2009 or even later, would it be so bad? I think I could cope.
However, looking back to last year, anticipation was at fever pitch. We were all salivating at the thought of PES on the new generation of consoles. I am one of those who bought a PS3 primarily for PES2008. If I’d heard in August/September last year that PES2008 wasn’t coming out until, well, 2008, I think I’d have had a nervous breakdown (only partly an exaggeration!). I don’t regret the PS3 purchase. I’ve played loads of other great games on it - and there’s GTA4 on Tuesday, MGS4 in June… And watching AVI files on a USB stick on a HDTV via the PS3 is almost the definition of decadent luxury.
Knowing what I know now, I’d be far more accepting and understanding and approving of a delay to PES2009, if it happens. It won’t happen though. I think they’ll hit their deadline this year and we’ll get a finished, technically accomplished PES2009 in October. I just hope the gameplay is classic PES.
ck - I’ve spent the afternoon going back through some old posts repairing links and suchlike that got broken in the move from wordpress.com.
I found the actual post where I posted my first wonder dribble (with replay). It came about 3 weeks after I got the game: http://peschronicles.co.uk/2007/11/19/now-we-can-concentrate-on-the-cup/
Until I got that goal I’d never dreamed it would have been possible for me to score a goal like that in PES. I went on to score them all the time and, well, you know the rest.
Shimizu can still be amazing if you get him to target-train body balance for a bunch of seasons. Kim is much better than him, of course, but who’s better than mighty Kim anyway?
I can see how good Kim Cyun Hi is already - for now I’m still sticking with Bergkamp as my best-ever PES striker, but Kim’s only 19 and already isn’t too far behind… (It’s an interesting season 2015 for him, put it that way.)
You’re in for a treat. I’d get Khumalo too, if I were you. You can play him either as AMF behind Kim or as a CF/WF. He’s fast enough for either, with great shooting and dribbling abilities. He’s nearly as good as KCH, though not quite.
Thanks for the refresher vid. I do remember, and all I can say is that I’ve *tried* to get that kind of goal (knowing it was possible in the Euro release of next-gen PES), and had no luck so far.
That said, I’ve seen the game get inexplicably easier (which I assume to be a function of teamwork and team popularity), so perhaps in another season or two, the defenses will start letting me make that kind of run.
Hell, I’d be for it if . . . say, Maradona could do it. But I seem to remember that you had pretty average players making some pretty amazing runs.
As the game has playes for me in my first 50 matches or so, I think dribbling and holding the ball is much more difficult in US next-gen PES than it was in Euro old-gen PES2008 (the version you’re playing now). If a defender is close to my player, and I try a Cryuff turn, or try to make a quick change of direction, I’m more likely to lose the ball than succeed.
In fact, as I’d mentioned, player technique is so poor, defenses have all the time in the world they need to close down the ball. It’s forced me into becoming a route-1 team! I’m playing the long-ball!
In fact, I think this game would make a *great* Championship simulator, and if I could use the League C teams in a Master League (and why can’t I, again?) I’d be tempted to play a Championship ML with realistic transfer rules — it’d be fun!