Zen and the Art of Pro Evolution Soccer
Posted by: not-Greg in Treble, defending, league table, pes2008, scripting, tags: defending, league table, pes2008, scripting, TrebleWhat is the sound of one hand clamping? This is a question that must be asked. But can it ever be answered?
Season 2012 has creaked to an unspectacular end. Despite my hopes and dreams of snatching a European place at the death, I was confounded by some extremely suspect CPU gameplay. For no apparent reason I took a couple of savage beatings and was left dismally stranded in mid-table.
My final position for the season was 8th—which isn’t bad for my first season in the top flight, I suppose. Historically, mid-table in my first season in the top flight in any PES is about par for the course. It’s peculiar now to recall how much I struggled in the next-gen version when I went up to Division 1 for the first time. An ignominious scrap at the bottom of the table saw me avoid relegation by only 4 points. But that was exceptional. (And, again, very peculiar, given the overall ease of that game.)
The CPU teams bit back at me toward the end of this season: I took a 3-1 beating, a 4-0 beating, and worst of all I let a few 2-0 leads slip in the last few minutes. Allowing the CPU to come back into matches where you’re kept them pinned in their half for the duration is one of the worst feelings you can have in PES. It’s just so demoralising to concede the last-gasp equaliser—especially when it comes from a corner, but that’s a topic worth a post of its own on another day.
When trying to defend against a CPU team that seems determined to carve out a chance and/or score a goal, I’ve noticed that I defend better when I indulge in what I call passive defending. This means standing off in the face of runners, covering passing lanes using the Square button to control an extra player, and just generally harrying and snapping and shepherding—very rarely actually tackling, and then only when absolutely sure of making the tackle. Well, about 95% sure.
It’s so tempting when the CPU has the ball to try to get it off them straightaway. I’m the human being here, runs the train of thought. I’m the one with all the sentience. It’s my ball and I want it back.
That way lies PES suicide. A CPU that’s determined to have the ball for a while and possibly do something with it will go on having and doing if you start maniacally flinging yourself and your players around to get in its way. It seems much more productive to relax in the face of CPU possession. To cultivate a mind like water…
There should never, ever, be any of that R1+Square+X malarkey going on—clamping, in other words, which the CPU teams have long been savvy to. I’ve found that when I do use clamping (and sometimes I just can’t help it), the CPU often slices through my defence like a hot knife through butter.
The way to defend—on PES2008 especially—is to adapt the core Zen principle of ‘effortless effort’. I call it, predictably, ‘defenceless defence’, sometimes with unintended accuracy when it leads to a CPU goal no matter what I do.
But most of the time, it works: not diving in, not rashly tackling. Marshalling the defenders. Taking responsibility for keeping them in their zones and not running them out of position in pursuit of CPU players that don’t want to be caught. Containing the attack. Absorbing the pressure. Allowing the CPU to have possession of the ball for a while, if that’s what it takes to quench the fire. All of these principles, I have found, hold good.
So, if this system is so great, why do I still concede goals? Why am I still only an average PES player (and I am)?
Because I don’t stick to it often enough to make that huge difference. I go ball-chasing. I clamp R1+Square+X until my finger joints crack. And that’s the sound of one hand clamping.
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Oh well, on to next season. There’s no Treble to play for—there’s no European football at all. My aim for season 2013 is to finish in the top 6 at least, and set myself up for a Treble challenge in 2014. I think I’ve got the players to do it and, by this stage, the ability at the game as well. Anything else will be a bonus.
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If you are talking about the PS2/PS3 version of PES, then I find using ‘R2′ during defending to be very useful; it makes the man stand and act as a ‘wall’ if you like and gives time for your other defenders to get into position. If you’re using the PSP version I don’t know what the keypress is.
Also Podolski is a god, but I prefer to have my CF’s more as wingers and the centre man as an SS (Podolski is superb in this role). This allows me to push through-balls up the wings where you can turn the defender and run towards the goal; you should have 2 or more players waiting for the cross and a simple knock-in. The closer you can get to the goal before crossing the higher the chance of scoring. You need fast wingers for this though - Shimzu, Walcott, Nani. During the off-season get all your players to train for ’speed’ apart from the goalies who should train for ‘goalkeeping’.
Lastly are you sure that Bradley is a better DMF than Camacho? It’s important to have a good player here. Essien, Camacho, Cesc Fabulous, etc.
Thanks for posting your PES progress; most people would keep their defeats to themselves, but you are very honest with your downs. Keep enjoying the game and fingers crossed Konami will do it right with PES2009!
trojanfoe - Yes, I find the R2 squeeze can be very effective in the corners of the pitch, but everywhere else I find the CPU just squirts right past me when I use it (with Square and an extra player to cover it can be effective).
Podolski! He’s been my main central CF for the past few seasons, but I think I’ve misused him. He’s much more natural as a left-sided AMF. I’ve picked up some new players in the negotiations that I’ll be posting about next time, and I’ve moved Podolski back there.
I had Shimizu in my first PS3 PES2008 career. I saw him again in the Youth list this time around and was on the verge of getting him but decided not to as I want to try a different tack. Again it’s all to do with the kinds of players I did get. (Sneak preview: I got Giggs!)
I think that Bradley is a better DMF than Camacho. I think it’s all to do with styles of play. How I deal with certain players will be different from anyone else. In any event I want to keep Camacho at right-sided AMF, and Bradley can’t play there. Bradley’s only 21 and is already immense, and he’s only going to get immenser. (That’s a proper word!)
Interesting comments about the difference between both gen versions of the game when you get promoted!
I did the unthinkable recently and got promoted in my first season usingly mostly defaults (top difficulty etc) I made the top league pretty much a super league and its quite random how it works.
The core of my team at that point was still very much ala-default (I had signed a wopping 4 players in the previous season! :/) and I put Real Madrid to bed. Granted it was only 1-0 from a pen but I dominated. From then on wards it beens goal-less draws and cheeky 0-1 defeats placing me in the bottom 3. Its good fun though, I quite like some of the default players now I’ve come to terms with PES2008.
Nice to see your progress but I missed a large chunk of your blog so I have no idea what your other seasons were like previously.
Good to hear the progress! I may remove my PES boycott now- I have sufficiently cooled down from my 2008 online escapades.
I will start a new Master League but I am torn. Should I play it on PES 6 (ps2) PES 6 (360) or PES 2008 (ps2), I am just not sure..
Uh so far this game is not doing much to keep me playing..
First match is a 1-1 draw with Deportivo. They get a last minute equaliser by an own goal. If i could show this you would be amazed- I have never seen anything like it. The ball is going out and my keeper runs to deflect it in- but it looks like im going to clear it so the keeper runs again and palms it into the net. He honestly tried to score twice.
The 2nd game with Real Madrid ends 1-1. They get a last minute equaliser from a 30 yard shot deflection. Yes, its going out but my own man deflects it in yet again for a ’shock’ draw in the 90th minute.
This might be my favorite post from you yet.
Paww—you got promotion in the first season with… the Default squad?! Wow, even with a few ‘ringers’ from the mid-season negotiations, that’s still very impressive. You’re still on the next-gen version, yes? (Don’t worry, only six months to the next next-gen version!) I think the first season on the next-gen version with the Defaults is just as tough as the last-gen version, if not a bit tougher, bizarrely. I think it’s because the CPU is just about unstoppable when it gets in the mood.
Not Given - you should come and join me, playing PES2008 on the PSP/PS2 version. I really haven’t enoyed PES so much since the heady days of PES5. Although I have to say, because of the PSP’s portability and sheer damn convenience (PSP sleep button, I’m looking at you) I’m chewing through so many games so quickly that the seasons on this blog could easily last a few days each. Yes, the scripting is annoying. The moments when the CPU will do what it plainly wants to do and you cannot do a damn thing are annoying. But there’s always the thrill of the next game and seeing if it is all pre-determined, or if you have any free will, and suchlike
ck - thanks, & thanks for that verbatim quote from an old Master. I don’t know what version he was playing on….
I had to ‘cheat’ with my master league - I started my own team ‘Trojan Rovers’ - as I have done for the last 5 years or so, and put it on ‘Top Player’ level, but was getting so frustrated at getting beaten with players the PES Guide describes as ‘being hardly able to stand up on their own’ (paraphrasing) that I had to turn it down to ‘Professional’ for the last 2 seasons. I will put it back up to Top Player next season. Seems I am just unable to tolerate the punishment you are.
I was seriously so fed up with the game I was gonna go back to PES6/PS2 as I have always enjoyed that and thought Konami had sucked all the fun out of PES2008/PS3. However my disc developed a crack and while it was away at Konami (they agreed to change it for £10) I was playing PES6/PS2 - it seems it wasn’t as good as I had remembered. I think you get used to playing one version of PES and anything else is alien until you get your eye back in.
I am happy with PES2008/PS3 - the only complaint is the slowdown which happens near the goalmouth, however that problem has been there with many previous versions, but you would have thought a console with the alleged power of the PS3 should be immune to such things. I don’t think Konami know how to program it yet.
If I’m confession mode I may as well tell you that I also have the ‘master league difficulty’ set at ‘Very Easy’ to make the transfers work in my favour. It’s only a game and cannot be doing with the hassle of not getting what I want - as in real life =)
I can’t see how Camacho could ever be a better DMF than Bradley. A better CMF or AMF, most definitely, but not in defense. Bradley absolutely DESTROYS everything in his way in defensive midfield. He can rip it from nearly the center circle too, unlike Camacho who is a more “refined” player, with a killer strike too, but who has to be closer to the goal. Camacho is also much better in attack because of his playmaking star.
trojanfoe—I’ve been tempted many times in the early seasons of an ML career to ‘cheat’ by lowering the difficulty to Professional, but I’ve held out so far. I love to look back after winning a Treble and know I’ve done it all on Top Player, or 5/6 star difficulty in the old days. One thing I will say though is that I very rarely have the internal difficulty settings—transfers, fatigue etc.—on anything other than Normal. Like you I don’t see the point in complicating transfers any more than they already are. To me the game on the pitch is the thing.
Adriano/Mirandinha—that’s what I was trying to say: that Camacho can be a great DMF in the Bradley mould, but he has attacking attributes that Bradley doesn’t have and would be relatively wasted as a DMF. Bradley, on the other hand, is a kind of tank in the DMF role, he was born to the DMF role and would be misused anywhere else. It’s nearly official, for me anyway: Bradley is the best PES DMF ever.
BUT - and this is very important - trojanfoe is on the PS3 version, where Bradley is nowhere near being the immense player that he is on the PSP/PS2 version. On the PS3 Bradley is good, but he doesn’t stand out in quite the same way. It’s arguable that fully-developed PS3 Camacho is a better DMF than fully-developed PS3 Bradley. Their PSP/PS2 couterparts are vastly different players in a vastly different game.
I didn’t mean to open a can of worms with the Bradley/Camacho debate. I mentioned it as I had Camacho and used him as DMF on PES6/PS2. I believe you that Bradley is better and will be looking into him myself come the next negotiation period.
Also on the attacking-front; I have my DMF scoring alot of the time, most notibly when I have had long-time pressure in my oppopents half, so it’s worth having someone who can finish here - Cesc and Essien both can for example.
I’m surprised the players are different between consoles though! This is one things Konami could have kept the same and it’s mind boggling the differences they have introduced between console versions - for example there are more stadiums on the PS2 version isn’t there? What are they thinking?
trojoanfoe - I fully agree re. DMFs and their scoring abilities. A DMF has got to have Middle Shooting otherwise he’s not getting in my team. A 4-3-3 like the one I play is built around the DMF in many ways. There’s the defensive role, of course, but also the attacking role—it’s critical that he is capable of scoring long-range screamers. At his peak a great DMF can be counted on for 15 goals a season. This is why I favour the Bradleys, Mathieus, and Prietos in the DMF role. Players like Che Hyon-Hon et al, although fine players in other respects, are only ever going to be stopgaps for me.
It’s not just the players that are different between next-gen and last-gen, of course—the whole game, the passing, the shooting, the rhythms and patterns, are all completely different. Only the names are the same. I think this is something I didn’t fully appreciate until I actually played the PSP/PS2 version. Until then I’d had the vague idea that they were the same game with different qualities of graphics. But no, they’re utterly different.
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