Daisycutters, Big Daddies, and Blue Touchpaper
Posted by: Greg Downs in 1-2-4-3, 3-2-2-3, 5-4-1, Guimaraes, PlayStation3, Xbox360, counter-attack, formations, goal replay, online, pes, strategy, strategy buttonsHere’s a great long-range goal from Guimaraes in a 6-1 rout of Everton:
I think that’s the longest long-ranger I’ve scored yet in PES2008. I’d be delighted with it if only it was placed higher up in the net. In PES there’s nothing quite like a long-distance, high, curling, dipping, screamer of a goal. This Guimaraes goal is good, but I dislike how low down it is. It’s almost a daisycutter. Keepers should never be beaten by long-range daisycutters. The dreadful state of the goalkeepers in PES2008 should never have got past Konami’s first playtest phase - if there even was a playtest phase, of course…
Schwarz scored four of the other goals. He’s neck-and-neck with Rooney for the Golden Boot at the moment.
Schwarz is now so prolific that I expect him to bag at least a hat trick in every game. He certainly gets the chances to do it. It’s a rare game where I don’t create at least five good chances for him, and usually more.
When I’m in the groove - concentrating fully, no distractions, not thinking of anything else but the game - a 4-3-3 with a good squad of players is pretty much unstoppable.
This is something I found the other night when I played online for the first time. Setting aside the horrific technical problems that marred all but one or two of the games, I was more than able to hold my own.
When I left the formations in their default states - usually a standard 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 - I struggled to create openings up front. But whenever I took a minute beforehand to rearrange the players into my beloved 4-3-3 with a deep DMF, I was a danger. The only thing I had to watch out for was the counter-attack - and I paid the price more than once. Somebody playing as Brazil (I was Argentina) completely destroyed me 3-0, my heaviest defeat of the session.
When the lag and out of sync problems weren’t effectively wrecking any kind of gameplay on the pitch, I had an enjoyable time. Playing against ‘people’ made a refreshing change from playing the AI. I suspect that PES2008 gameplay has been optimised with online in mind. (A possible reason why the single-player game feels curiously easy, and a bit flat, this year.)
Online could be where PES2008 finds its longevity - which makes it all the more urgent that Konami knuckles down and gets it sorted out. Online play is definitely something I’d want to return to in the future. As things stand, I won’t be going near the online game again until I hear that it has been sorted - or until I finally crack and get an Xbox360. As well as the 360’s relatively flawless PES2008, other games like Bioshock and Mass Effect are starting to tempt me.
Getting back to my Master League, the only time I feel in real danger now is when a fast, determined CPU team collects the ball after one of my attacks and sweeps down to my end. This is where my alt 5-4-1 formation (mapped to a strategy button) has come in very handy. Switching between my starting 4-3-3 and the alt 5-4-1, and back again, is a press of two buttons away. It drags my players by the scruff of their necks back to defend in depth and in numbers, snuffing out the counter.
I’ve also spent some time tinkering with my other alt formation - the ultra-attacking 1-2-4-3, mapped to L2+Square. That formation was really only good for one thing: extreme attacking play in the final third. Losing the ball was a nightmare. There was no way my forward players (i.e. nearly all of them) could ever get back in time.
So I’ve amended it to an attacking formation that I can actually play with for some time. One that reduces the chances of being sliced open on the counter attack. A 3-2-2-3. The defensive line is set to high, and the Offside Trap is set to frequent. All three CBs have full defensive duties; the DMFs are on medium defending, but with run arrows pointing back to my goal; and everyone else is on full attack-attack-ATTACK mode.
It’s a formation I can leave on for much longer periods than I ever dared to leave the 1-2-4-3 on for.
After the Everton romp, I went on a mini-run of defeats. Poor defeats: 0-2 to Bolton, who I beat easily at the start of the season. I lost 2-1 at West Ham, picking up two red cards as my frustration grew.
Then it was Chelsea. I was nervous before this one, spending an uncharacteristic amount of time in the formation and the Regulate Condition screens. I took to the field and scored early, then had to withstand almost constant pressure for the remainder of the half. The CPU had the ball and I was not going to get it back. I’m trying to wean myself off talking about scripting, but it’s mighty hard. Every loose ball went to Chelsea. There. That’s my ration used up for the whole week.
Chelsea got their equaliser early in the second half, as I knew they would. The game went on with both teams attacking dangerously but not really creating a clear-cut scoring chance. Both goalkeepers were as butterfingered with weak shots as ever in PES2008, but there was always a defender on hand to clear up the mess.
Donadel played in this game - a rare appearance after I’d noticed him sitting on the bench with a red form arrow and a full stamina bar. I played him as DMF, for old time’s sake.
I know the rhythms of a Master League by now - the patterns of players’ comings and goings - and Donadel is not long for this world. I’ll be shipping him out at the end of the season. It makes me feel sad after all he has done for me so far. His arrival in season 2009 was the match that lit the blue touchpaper that ignited the run that swept me to promotion from Division 2.
After giving him this build-up, you’ll more than likely know what came next. Donadel scored the winner against Chelsea - a diving header in the six-yard box, in the 90th minute. It was probably Donadel’s last appearance and last goal for me in PES2008.
*Moment of silence*
I’m back up to 3rd place in the table. There are six games left in the season. I will only catch Man Utd to take 2nd place if they lose most or all of their remaining games and I win all of mine. It’s not going to happen. Liverpool in 4th place are level with me on points, but have a poorer goal difference. I really want to hang on to that 3rd spot.
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nice shot, long shots go in all the time because of weak goalkeepers. Whenever a midfielder has a little space in the centre of the park, bang a long-shot in, no matter their stats, as its practically always a goal. If it goes at the keeper, he’ll most likely fumble it into the net, no jokes (as im sure you know).
Donadel to be shipped out ehh, which superstar will you try to bring in?
The goalkeepers in PES2008 are so dire that there’s almost no satisfaction in scoring most goals. The amount of rebound goals is ridiculous. All the 4-1 results I get where three of the goals are rebounds (two for me, one for the CPU, say)… it *sucks* big time.
As for Donadel… as well as Mathieu I want to get a really solid midfielder, someone like Pirlo would be good. I’m going to be looking at a few of the players everyone has mentioned in the comments here over the past few days too.
Donadel! Keep him for old time’s sake! Is he old and fading? Keep him on the bench as a player/manager and then give him a coach’s position when he retires.
“I’m trying to wean myself off talking about scripting, but it’s mighty hard.”
Why? We talk about the rain when it’s raining.
One of the things I’m digging about FIFA at the moment is the lack of heavy-handed scripting. They have some, but for the most part it’s not as bad as PES.
On the other hand, I think the players builds and animations aren’t as good as PES 6! Quality players helps quite a bit with the sluggish feeling of play, but it’s still a bit meaty compared to PES. Overall, I like it. But like most Pro Evo ex-pats, I’m not sure yet that it will own me the way a good PES release does.
Donadel is not that old yet and his stats are still decent. However he has no ability stars to speak of, and his averageness is pretty obvious most of the time when he plays in the big division. I’ve never ‘done a Marcos’ with him - not since the last part of season 2009 anyway.
FIFA08… always a vexed question for a PES man, this. I’ve said before that I like - even LOVE, at times - FIFA08. But at the same time I can see why people who don’t like it or loathe it feel the way they do. PES players will always be ambivalent toward FIFA. It’s in our gaming DNA.
My FIFA08 special week on this blog isn’t too far away and I can’t wait. Looking at YouTube vids like this - http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=FIFA08GOALS (no, it’s not me in disguise) - really whets my appetite and reminds me of what I’ve turned my back on since PES2008 popped out of the ether. Yet I know that while I’m playing FIFA08 I’ll be hankering after PES. Strange.
I wont be playing that FIFA crap
GK sucking bigtime was a topic of mine in one of your previous posts. As you reiterate, it gives no pleasure to put a long shot into the net when its practically un-guarded at every try. This is a HUGE problem for the game, its longevity is SEVERELY hindered by this one problem. There should really be a patch just for that.
i had Mathieu in pro6 myself too, and he developed to become amazing, as you know, but this season I checked out his stats and he doesnt look the star he once was. For a DMF I used to use M’Bami (in pro6) - I tried for him recently but failed. He looks a good choice.
short DMF Search came up with these findings
Who i will/would buy for DMF position:
Essien -ready-made general, amazing but has his price
ReoCoker- CMF rather than DMF, but can play low and has the right stats - cheaper option but class
Sergio Ramos -all-rounder, CB too
k.p.Boateng - SOO ready to boss the park (even if you have to change the title to CMF to have him play better - he doesnt have the DMF star). I tried to buy him but failed, i think i heard he develops well, but hes already a star… really worth getting
Marchisio - CMF, amazing but at his peak between 24-26yrs of age
Huddlestone - peaks at 93avg at the age of 24/25!
Denilson - Cheap, looks great. Will buy him to find out what his peak is like and to sell for profit lol
david - FIFA08 on next-gen is nothing like previous FIFAs. It’s as different from old-style FIFA as the proverbial chalk and cheese. It’s a whole new style of football game. What that means is that you’ll start it up, and immediately try to do all your PES moves (as I did, and as every PES player does) and they won’t work and you’ll think ‘huh! this game is buh-roken…’ But it’s not - it’s a game with its own quirks and moves that have to be learned. I’ve found it a refreshing change after almost a decade now of the same football games every year (including the likes of This Is Football, World Soccer Tour, etc.)
(nb: the PC version of FIFA08 is not next-gen. It’s more or less an updated FIFA07.)
I’m not one of the seemingly hundreds of regulars over on PESfan who’ve been all-out converted (seriously, have you seen the FIFA08 thread in the Video Games Zone over there? Worrying reading for Konami - if they read it). But I am feeling ‘bi-curious’ (*ahem!* in football game terms) about FIFA this year.
FIFA08 was out for a month before PES2008 and I played it almost every day for a few weeks, then abandoned it as PES release day neared. I was *so* certain that PES2008 was going to be unequivocally the definitive next-gen football game. I’d say *neither* FIFA or PES have managed that this year. But which one comes closest? I’d have to say - *sharp intake of breath* - FIFA08. BUT I’d still say I’m (currently) getting more out of PES2008 than I ever got out of FIFA.
You might be able to tell how confused I am. I remember buying a copy of FIFA2001 way back in the day, playing it for an hour, and then taking it back to the shop in disgust. (This was when you could do that without having to argue with the shop.) I swore never to buy another FIFA game, and I stuck to it until FIFA06. I’m seriously going to go ahead with ‘FIFA week’ on this blog and I’ll speak more about this then! Don’t worry, though - it’ll all be from a PES standpoint. The first post in ‘FIFA week’ will be a real ‘Confessions of a PES fan’-style outpouring, as if to an imaginary agony aunt. “Dear Deirdre, I hope you can help.”
And finally re Marchisio in your list - I’m ahead of you on that one. I’m into the negotiation period already and he was my first buy. I also bought… ah, but that’s enough sneak-previewing for one day, I think.
youre not ahead, I have had him for a couple days now
(i got him in the last negotiations, whilst at his peak)
I am a real fan of FIFA08. Like most other PES players i wasn’t keen on going anywhere near a FIFA game. I bought 08 basically as a way of killing time and getting some use out of my PS3 up until PES08 was to be released but i must say i was most impressed with FIFA.
The only nagging issue for me and the one that keeps me from spending more time on FIFA than i do on PES is that there is no option to use the D-Pad to control your players. I use the joysticks in every other type of game but when it comes to sports games it just doesn’t feel right as i feel i have less control over my players tight movements required to be successful.
I have tried and tried to get used to joystick control but i just can’t. I really can’t understand why the option to use the D-Pad was not included in the game and it frustrates me beyond belief.
David, Denilson peaks at about 89. A disappointment, as in PES6 he peaked over 90. I have him at his peak right now, and although he’s quality, he was better in PES6. I’m alternating him and Prieto in the DMF role. I want Prieto to peak so.
Btw, in my last negotiations window, I got a few newcomers you guys are going to like: Bos, Kaiser, Camacho, Guimarães and Shubin.
They’ll be a nice additioin to the squad, I already have a few other Konami wonderkids: Koeman, Khumalo, Kim Cyun Hi, Walton, Van Dijk, Bradley, Doesburg, Ribeiro, Eckstein, Prieto.
I started my 3rd season in ML tonight, after reading again about your sucess I finally caved in and switched formation (I was desperate to keep 4-4-2 (i like the over lapping down the wings)
I switched over to 4-3-3 and I think it might of made a slight difference.
The previous season overall I won 7 games and scored 26 goals, conceeded 49.
This season using 4-3-3
Played 5, won 5, scored 12 conceeded 3.
The difference the right formation makes is insane. Except for two major first team players its the same ones that left me in the horrible 20th I ended last season!
I’m hoping its not just due to the fact that I actually pick my ideal XI and once lots of chopping and changing comes about I’ll lose. Because out of this paranoia I’ve been using second string in my two cup games (lost 1-0 in the end on away goal).
But I think the keepers may have ALOT to do with my new found winning streak. Fumble fumble, I think have that extra CF in the box to pick up the loose balls must be a major factor. L.Aguiar my top scorer and assist has 7 goals and 3 assists in 5 games (talk about a run of form :o). Strangly enough he was my top scorer last season with 7 too lol (end of the season though :/)
So I wondered greg what percentage of your goals come from keeper mistakes (or parrying if were going to be kind)?
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Mirandinha
I think you’ve just saved me from buying a copy of FIFA 08 and possibly saved PES for me. I HAVE to use d-pad on games I just can’t handle the analog sticks.
I wonder if the PC version of FIFA(how I normally play PESS) you can change the controls.
Funnily enough while on your name sake, in 2009 season someone just signed Minanda from where he was rotting in the unsigned players section. Insane that someone wants a 37 year old version of him. :s
I have just had one of my worst PES experiences. After battling away all season fighting for a promotion place i came up against Internacional (sp?), a team that were sitting mid table so i fancied my chances. Little did i see what was coming next, i quite literally thumped them. The final score was 10-1 and their keeper played the worst game i have ever seen. I had 16 shots in the game, 13 of which were on target and 10 resulted in goals.
i think 8 of the 10 goals were savable and on 4 or 5 occasions he got at least a hand to the ball before if found the back of the net. I know i am nowhere near that good and i was very worried about the future of my ML.
Thankfully normal service resumed in the next match with a hard fought 2-2 draw with Dinamo Zagreb but i simply can’t explain what happened in that one match or why their keeper was so bad.
Maybe its slightly exaggerated but you do get random thumpings in real life football too. Trying to put a positive spin on things :p
David - I got Marchisio at his peak too. Not had a chance to test him out in a match yet. There’s some big decisions to be made re. my First XI. All will be revealed…
Stinger - re. the D-pad vs the analogue sticks, the only reason I bought a DualShock for my PS1 back in 2000 was to sample the game (ISS Pro Evolution 2 at the time) with the sticks rather than the D-pad. I took to the sticks immediately and have never looked back. I’ve tried playing with the D-pad since and I can’t re-adapt to it. One of the many niggling things wrong with FIFA08 is that it doesn’t allow D-pad players to use their preferred controls, I agree. (And mapping sprint to R2 was another reason I stopped playing it in the run-up to PES2008 coming out.) Oh, and re. your 10-1 scoreline - I haven’t had a similar one yet, but the amount of games I win easily 5-2 or 4-1 is depressing.I remember it being a rarity on previous instalments to get more than 4 - and even getting 4 was a remarkable achievement.
Mirandinha - Is Koeman a classic player? I’m *aching* to spill all about my pre-season 2012 signings (I’ve already completed the negotiation period) but I’d better keep schtum. I got some good players…
Paul - I loved the 4-4-2 wingers when I briefly dabbled with that formation a few seasons back, but I couldn’t handle not having 3 strikers. And the % of my goals that come from keeper fumbles? Sorry to say it but it’s got to be about 50%. I’d say half of the rest are goals that keepers in previous PES games would have saved as well. I go through several games at a time just scoring lame goals, one after the other. The run-down-the-wing-cut-inside-run-along-the-edge-of-the-box-make-space-and-score goal is the lamest goal of all. “Don’t do it then,” might be the answer, but there are so many easy ways to score that you’d end up not being able to do anything!
Koeman is a Konami player, not THE Ronaldo Koeman. He’s quality all the way from the beginning, I must say. He’s 17, and he’s already in my starting XI, fighting with Alexandre Pato for a place in the wing.
Regarding scorelines, the highest I’ve had so far was 5-0. No CPU team has managed to score more than 2 goals in a match against me yet. It’s strange about Internacional, since their keeper Clemer is not bad at all.